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Thread: Safe Specs

  1. #1

    Default Safe Specs

    This has been discussed before, quite a lot I imagine. But I have a question. SAPS is supposed to physically check safe compliance and installation but we all know that some DFO's want photos to avoid the need for on site inspection. Has that become the norm? Are they all doing it as standard practice or is it random depending on which DFO?

    As as I can tell, not all safes are labelled as compliant, so how does the DFO establish whether a safe is compliant, bearing in mind that safe casings are often so constructed that thickness can't be measured with a vernier caliper. And if it could, what DFO carries one with him?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Safe Specs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick View Post
    This has been discussed before, quite a lot I imagine. But I have a question. SAPS is supposed to physically check safe compliance and installation but we all know that some DFO's want photos to avoid the need for on site inspection. Has that become the norm? Are they all doing it as standard practice or is it random depending on which DFO?

    As as I can tell, not all safes are labelled as compliant, so how does the DFO establish whether a safe is compliant, bearing in mind that safe casings are often so constructed that thickness can't be measured with a vernier caliper. And if it could, what DFO carries one with him?
    I have not had a safe inspection in 9 license application and three renewals over 12 years. All at Sandton DFO for what its worth.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Safe Specs

    On renewals they ask you at our DFO to bring photos of safe.

    Showing bolts that attached it. Door opened. Showing the side ways bolts holding door closed.

    As there needs to be moving once and non moving once.

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    Default Re: Safe Specs

    When I did my license a few years ago I took photos of the safe, the bolts (including a tape so that they can check the length) the installed bolts etc. When I was at the DFO they were making arrangements for an inspection of somebody else's safe, but told me they won't inspect mine as I have the photo's for the new application. They only inspect for renewals, which doesn't make sense. I suspect it depends on the DFO, our seldom have a police car available to go for inspections anyway.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Safe Specs

    My safe was never checked..New applicant... . If they had then I would have moved the safe afterwards as well... Not really trusting of SAPS... Lol....

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Safe Specs

    Dont know if anything things, this is the last info I had on safes

    SAFES
    28. (1) The requirements with which a safe for the safekeeping of an arm shall comply for the purposes of sections 3(6) and 39(1) (j), (k) and (I) of the Act and these Regulations, are the following:
    (a)Material: the construction of the safe shall be of mild steel of commercial (or higher) quality;
    (b)side thickness: the thickness of the floor, roof and sides shall be at least 2 mm and the wall thickness of the door shall be at least 3 mm.
    (2) Specific requirements in respect of the design and construction of the doors of a safe referred to in this regulation, shall be the following:
    (a) Openings: When the door is closed, there shall not be an opening of more than 1 mm between the door and the door-frame.
    (b) Door-frame: If the hinges are concealed, the door-frame shall have a bended and welded construction with a reinforced rebate on three sides of the frame and in the case of hinges with a normal construction, the door-frame shall have a bended and welded construction with a reinforced rebate on all four sides of the frame. There shall be a protection guard (for instance a deflecting plate) to protect the lockpin.
    (c) Bolts: When the door is closed and locked, it shall not noticeably move if force is exerted by hand or with the handle, and the intervening space between any bolt and the rebate shall not exceed 1 mm. Doors of safes which are higher than 500 mm shall be equipped with at least three bolts.
    (d) Hinges: Doors shall have an upper and a lower hinge which shall be so constructed that the door may open through at least an angle of 100 degrees and that the distance between the hinges does not exceed 350 mm.
    (e) Locks: The safe door shall be equipped with one lever lock which shall have not less than ten levers of which not less than three shall be provided with false notches or a combination lock of the type which has three gears or an electronic lock which complies with the requirements approved of the South Africa Bureau of Standards:

    (3) The safe shall to the satisfaction of the Commissioner-
    (a) be affixed flush to a floor, wall or other immovable structure or part thereof of the house, flat, residence or other dwelling place of an applicant concerned;

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Safe Specs

    My DFO did an inspection once and wrote down her findings. Then came again when I requested a new safe inspection.

    She looked at the important parts visually. The most important parts, to her, were the amount of bolts.

    Thinking about it I could summuze that she did not delve deeper due to recognizing the type of safe I have. I do not know how she/they handle once-offs or DIY jobbies.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Safe Specs

    Zuku's post has opened this a bit further for me because I had the idea that the minimum specs were a bit tougher than his post says. But thanks Zuku for posting the info. But now my question is where does that info come from, and is that the spec that the Act requires, or is another spec eg SABS the required spec and is that different from what Zuku posted. I ought to know the answer but I don't unfortunately. Right now it matters to me because I've been offered a safe for a fair price that meets the spec described by Zuku, that suits me because I can manhandle it when some three gun safes are too heavy for my advanced age, and I don't want help installing it because secrecy is the best security.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuku View Post
    Dont know if anything things, this is the last info I had on safes

    SAFES
    28. (1) The requirements with which a safe for the safekeeping of an arm shall comply for the purposes of sections 3(6) and 39(1) (j), (k) and (I) of the Act and these Regulations, are the following:
    (a)Material: the construction of the safe shall be of mild steel of commercial (or higher) quality;
    (b)side thickness: the thickness of the floor, roof and sides shall be at least 2 mm and the wall thickness of the door shall be at least 3 mm.
    (2) Specific requirements in respect of the design and construction of the doors of a safe referred to in this regulation, shall be the following:
    (a) Openings: When the door is closed, there shall not be an opening of more than 1 mm between the door and the door-frame.
    (b) Door-frame: If the hinges are concealed, the door-frame shall have a bended and welded construction with a reinforced rebate on three sides of the frame and in the case of hinges with a normal construction, the door-frame shall have a bended and welded construction with a reinforced rebate on all four sides of the frame. There shall be a protection guard (for instance a deflecting plate) to protect the lockpin.
    (c) Bolts: When the door is closed and locked, it shall not noticeably move if force is exerted by hand or with the handle, and the intervening space between any bolt and the rebate shall not exceed 1 mm. Doors of safes which are higher than 500 mm shall be equipped with at least three bolts.
    (d) Hinges: Doors shall have an upper and a lower hinge which shall be so constructed that the door may open through at least an angle of 100 degrees and that the distance between the hinges does not exceed 350 mm.
    (e) Locks: The safe door shall be equipped with one lever lock which shall have not less than ten levers of which not less than three shall be provided with false notches or a combination lock of the type which has three gears or an electronic lock which complies with the requirements approved of the South Africa Bureau of Standards:

    (3) The safe shall to the satisfaction of the Commissioner-
    (a) be affixed flush to a floor, wall or other immovable structure or part thereof of the house, flat, residence or other dwelling place of an applicant concerned;
    Regarding the specifications that I'm aware of I have the wall thickness of the box casing to be 3mm minimum and the door to be 6mm minimum. (not the 2mm wall and 3mm door which is not correct)
    Minimum 7 lever lock.

    There are a few other queries with the spec posted above that isn't quite in line with spec, I'll need to double check.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Safe Specs

    You can download here. Sorry my post reflected 1994 regulations

    Year 2008
    https://natshoot.s3.amazonaws.com/up...egulations.pdf

    Type B safe see regulation 6.1 (determine which safe specs you want to view. Door 5.75 mm and rest 2.8mm.

    Question. People that have safes that conform to older standard, whose safes was inspected and pass by SAPS, which is thinner then the current regulation, are they still legal seeing that SAPS approved it, same as with green and white license.

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