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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    The caseless thing never really took off despite vast investment and trials by the US military amongst others. What I think I remember was that the 'logistics' around ammo management was problematic in that the propellant and projectile needed to be protected to a much greater extent than cased ammo to avoid it going out of dimansional spec or just being broken. Then feeding was also an issue as no 'hard' points for feed mechanisms where available.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    Also for serious / hard / high volume of shooting like in a competition (or a war) caseless ammo is a brain fart concept. (Even though it has a high cool factor)

    Aside from all the other advantages of having the propellant inside a cartridge case all safe dry and snugly; when the propellant ignites heat gets transferred to the casing... and then the casing gets ejected... taking a lot of the heat out of the system.

    With caseless cartridges the heat gets absorbed directly by the chamber. and all the heat and propellant gasses work directly on the chamber walls. With metallic cartridge cases the gasses burn against and erode the inside of the casing. Heat does get transferred from the casing to the chamber but I suspect overheating a chamber to get to instant cook off temperatures will happen much sooner with caseless ammo.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    But with greater thermal efficiency you should be able to achieve the same velocities with much lower temperatures. Not sure where the lines intersect but I’m sure it is somewhere in the vicinity of possibility.
    Sent electronically, thus not signed.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    With metallic cartridge cases the gasses burn against and erode the inside of the casing. Heat does get transferred from the casing to the chamber but I suspect overheating a chamber to get to instant cook off temperatures will happen much sooner with caseless ammo.
    That was one of the issues I remember reading about. Think it was the Germans who found that the heat build up of the magical H&K caseless wunderwaffe led to cookoffs under sustained fire conditions.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaaphaas View Post
    But with greater thermal efficiency you should be able to achieve the same velocities with much lower temperatures. Not sure where the lines intersect but I’m sure it is somewhere in the vicinity of possibility.
    I don't follow. What gets more thermally efficient due to the ammo being caseless?

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    Well, most large caliber guns function on the caseless ammo principle and they seem to work just fine? Rate of fire is obviously not as high as small arms.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    Quote Originally Posted by MrK View Post
    Well, most large caliber guns function on the caseless ammo principle and they seem to work just fine? Rate of fire is obviously not as high as small arms.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    As M43 said ------ Aside from all the other advantages of having the propellant inside a cartridge case all safe dry and snugly; when the propellant ignites heat gets transferred to the casing... and then the casing gets ejected... taking a lot of the heat out of the system.

    The barrel becomes the heat sink and that is not good.


  9. #19
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    Default Re: Polymer cartridge cases

    Not all of them, but some self propelled howitzers and also ship cannons have active cooling systems. I doubt a foot patrol soldier would want to carry a extra canister of water for active cooling of his caseless cartridge type rifle.

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