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  1. #1

    Default Flight of fancy?

    I've had this idea for a while. My local range, Somerset West Pistol Club is now subject to NRCS regulatory control which means among other things, that we can't shoot rifle bigger that 22RF on our 25m range that is normally in use Saturday afternoons. I used to shoot cast loads from my 308W occasionally, just to keep my hand in and for experimental reasons. I'd like a handgun calibre rifle that I can shoot on that range but I don't like LA carbines and don't want 22RF because I want to continue loading my own and casting my own. What I need is a slightly heavier than sporter weight bolt action in 38Spl or 32S&W Long. Or preferably 32H&R Magnum for a bit more capacity for slower powder than MP200 but that's a detail. 32S&WL would be best choice because actions with suitable bolt face (223) are available. Well, Mini Mauser and Howa small actions seem not to be available so I'd probably have to rebarrel a second hand rifle. Barrels for 32S&W might be a tad problematic because groove diameter should really be 313. However, 311 bullets seat well enough in 32S&W brass, and barrels are available with 312 groove diameter which should work perfectly provided rifling twist is OK. Such a rifle would be exactly what I need, as well as being economical to shoot. I haven't gone further than thinking about it, so I have no idea of the likely cost, but I have a nice 308 Sako that I'd sell to fund it. I'll not do much more shooting with the 308 but I'd do quite a lot with a 32S&W.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Flight of fancy?

    Sounds like and even more sensible and practical idea than the Ruger 77/44, a copy of which I have been keeping an eye out forever. A pistol calibre rifle in the same format, i.e. bolt action sporter, as one's centre fire rifles is very appealing. With casting and handloading your recipe would probably shoot cheaper than all but the bottom of the barrel 22LR.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Flight of fancy?

    I occasionally see some old English Rook rifles floating around. They don't seem to attract lots of attention, so prices stay moderate. This may just fill your need without breaking the bank. A new barrel and gunsmithing may set you back a bit more than a new Howa rifle.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Flight of fancy?

    Thanks oafpatroll, it's a relief to know that at least one person doesn't think I'm nuts. You have put your finger right on it. It's partly due to the recent death of my wife, which has of course plunged me into a life that bears no resemblance to my previous life of 49 years, in which, because we were soul mates seldom separated, she was my life and I didn't begrudge not doing much without her. Now I have more time than I know what to do with, and more shooting is one of the ways I'll fill it. I've always preferred rifle over handgun and am quite content with shooting at 25m at a range only 7km from my apartment. We have three or four other short ranges which allow me to choose another direction of shot and thus get 50m if I'm shooting alone. But either way a pistol calibre is ideal. As I said I want a bolt action. Eagle Barrels offers a 303 barrel with 311 groove. Lothar Walther offers 312. Although standard groove diameter for 32S&W Long is 313, I know that some target pistols like 312 or 313 bullets better than 314. It is therefore likely that a 311 or 312 barrel will work fine without the need for tighter than normal chamber or dies. I have already established that 311 bullets seat well enough in 32S&W Long cases, but I must further test that with bullets of 312 and 313 diameter. I think it safe to say that 30 cal bullets sized 309 or 310 will be too small, but I'll test that too. A cheaper alternative might be a 303 British barrel if one could be found. Most of those are 313 groove, and will still be long enough after the chamber and the worn muzzle portions are cut off. The light weight of the slim barrel can be compensated with a sleeve type barrel weight. But these are just ideas and whether I'll ever do it is another matter. But, given our shooting ranges disappearing or getting shorter, plus the rapidly increasing cost of shooting, perhaps these ideas could be useful to others.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Flight of fancy?

    There you go:

    https://castbulletassoc.org/blog/art...lonial-wildcat

    303 Pygmy.

    Similar should be doable with most regular rifle cartridges. One would need to shorten the chamber of a standard rifle.




    Or you could start searching for something like a rook rifle, which used to be based on handgun cartridges or their derivatives.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Flight of fancy?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-R View Post
    A new barrel and gunsmithing may set you back a bit more than a new Howa rifle.
    Oh yes, I'm acutely aware of that! That's why, aside from the other factors, I'd need to get enough for my 308 Sako to cover at least a good percentage of the cost. It is frustrating that just before the enactment of the FCA Mini Mauser actions could be had for R1800 but R900 afterwards. Now they can't be had at all as far as I know. Also as far as I know, in the US various makes of action can be had, so it is frustrating that we can't get them. The naughty boy in me says "I have an old and quite beaten up SMLE - why not alter that quite radically, as I have the gunsmithing skills, and don't bother telling CFR." But I suppose that would be asking for trouble. For that matter why must I pay a gunsmith for what I can do myself? It's just that I'd have to buy a used rifle AND the replacement barrel, and I don't think CFR would be able to handle that. Unless I buy a rifle and hand over the barrel before buying the replacement barrel, but I don't think CFR would be able to handle that either. I regret missing the CZ in 22 Hornet that Strand Guns sold for only R4500 two years ago. That was cheap enough to justify rebarreling to 270 and chambering for the 270REN which is a straight case necked up from 22 Hornet to fire a 90 grain 277 cal bullet. Oh well, lost opportunities.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Flight of fancy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick View Post
    Oh yes, I'm acutely aware of that! That's why, aside from the other factors, I'd need to get enough for my 308 Sako to cover at least a good percentage of the cost. It is frustrating that just before the enactment of the FCA Mini Mauser actions could be had for R1800 but R900 afterwards. Now they can't be had at all as far as I know. Also as far as I know, in the US various makes of action can be had, so it is frustrating that we can't get them. The naughty boy in me says "I have an old and quite beaten up SMLE - why not alter that quite radically, as I have the gunsmithing skills, and don't bother telling CFR." But I suppose that would be asking for trouble. For that matter why must I pay a gunsmith for what I can do myself? It's just that I'd have to buy a used rifle AND the replacement barrel, and I don't think CFR would be able to handle that. Unless I buy a rifle and hand over the barrel before buying the replacement barrel, but I don't think CFR would be able to handle that either. I regret missing the CZ in 22 Hornet that Strand Guns sold for only R4500 two years ago. That was cheap enough to justify rebarreling to 270 and chambering for the 270REN which is a straight case necked up from 22 Hornet to fire a 90 grain 277 cal bullet. Oh well, lost opportunities.
    Converting your old SMLE sounds like the way to go. I am thinking about something like a De Lisle carbine, but built on a full-length receiver. Use the original barrel, set it back and chamber for a straight-walled case, with long but tight leade to accommodate a long cast lead bullet. 32 S&W Long or even the longer 32 H&R Mag or 327 Federal come to mind. You won't need many cases, a batch of 100 should keep you going for many years. The barrel can be fairly short, leaving room for a suppressor.

    Just slug the barrel to determine actual groove diameter. The SMLE is known for it's somewhat generous tolerances. Barrels with groove diameters up to .318" have been encountered. If you feed it cast lead, this can easily be accommodated.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Flight of fancy?

    Ruger 77 in 357.

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