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  1. #31
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    Default Re: AR accessories - Wants vs Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by pblaauw View Post
    I bought one of Marius's kits (the Toni trigger spring kit). It's installed on a standard trigger that's in my Stag Arms AR15. Problem was that the springs didn't seem strong enough to hold the trigger pins in place, so first shot the trigger pin moved, and the trigger would not reset. You can see it happen here in the Tac Shac video of the match:

    I took it to my gunsmith I trust, and he finely opened the grooves that the springs rest on more, and that seemed to temporarily solve the problem. I currently have on order a anti-walk kit for the AR pins. Now it's hard to say if the Toni spring kit caused the issue, or the pins, but I did not have the problem prior to having the Toni spring kit installed.
    FYI. Anti walk pins are not recommended for standard "Mil Spec" style triggers. They were pretty much invented for the use of cassette triggers, which do not place downward spring pressure onto the pins.

    The standard "mil spec" and all other non cassette triggers are designed with pin rotation in mind, and as such limiting it can cause ovaling of the FCG pivot points and / or the actual receiver. In extreme cases it has even been known to create stress fractures and failure of the actual hammer.

    There are a few writeups and a fair amount of anecdotal evidence on M4Carbine.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: AR accessories - Wants vs Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevin View Post
    You make it sound as if a Mil Spec AR Trigger is like pulling a bad Double Action Revolver Trigger. Even bad AR Triggers you can very easily shoot as accurately as is needed in all the action sports, and as a novice in any other discipline it is most likely not the part that would be holding you back. Once again it comes down to basic marksmanship. All a good trigger is going to do is mask lack of fundamentals. This is "mostly" true for most shooters with all guns. Again the exception being those who spend time on training to the point where a trigger, or tuning a different recoil impulse or weight balance on the gun, etc helps them edge out the added 100th's of performance they require.

    One thing that can't be argued it that a good trigger does always make a nicer gun to shoot it's just a given.

    Then again it depends what ones definition of a "good" trigger is. That will vary from person to person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marius@Jizni View Post
    No, I make it sound like you should know the reason why you install an upgrade. (Or don't.)

    - If someone wants to upgrade an AR trigger to improve splits, I would also say no.

    - If you want to improve accuracy, it starts to make sense but more so, as WoodsieEC pointed out, at longer ranges.

    - If you want to maximise your own improvement, though, you get to the point of my first post. "Basic marksmanship" covers a wide range of fundamentals and the better you can isolate something, the better you can practice it. And accuracy is always my departure point. It just makes everything else easier, from load development to the shooting itself.

    Yes, a heavy trigger isolates trigger control, and a creepy trigger isolates follow-through, so I wonder about the ideal time to upgrade, but trying to improve both while learning to use an aperture sight by way of plastic pop-up sights is not the best use of ammo.
    I believe I mentioned accuracy? When I say action sports I'm mainly referring to IPSC, of which I have personally shot out to 300m in matches. I believe when speaking about longer ranges and AR15's we are not generally speaking in the realm of 600m and further, at least not in 5.56

    At what is considered usable distance with an AR15, in an IPSC match it will not be a standard trigger holding you back.

    I think we have digressed though as we get further away from my original comment on your original post in that I do believe a trigger upgrade does have merit in an AR15, but there is a whole whack of time behind the gun before it should be a consideration, at the end of the day it's the OP's money to do as he likes and if he wants a gun that looks good on the Gram with little time on it... then that's his choice.

  3. #33
    User Marius@Jizni's Avatar
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    Default Re: AR accessories - Wants vs Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevin View Post
    At what is considered usable distance with an AR15, in an IPSC match it will not be a standard trigger holding you back.
    Agreed. But my argument is not remotely based on whether it will hold you back in an IPSC match or not.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: AR accessories - Wants vs Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevin View Post
    Dunno why, but that reminded me of Boet Fighter.
    I used to hang around Whaaaart Horse so I think I will score well in that game. Fourways is the new Randburg i hear.

    The charging handle is the one thing that is a definite must to upgrade over the milspec one. The other stuff wait until you have used the rifle a bit.

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