AR accessories - Wants vs Needs

[Stevin]

Couldn't agree more, once you go Geiselle theres no going back.

Cough Cough, Timney, La Rue and Hiperfire in my guns... All serve a different purpose for a different type of gun.
The only Geiselle I would spend the money on is a National Match.

Anyways, back to Marius post... I disagree regarding sights and trigger.
Mil Spec Triggers are plenty usable for the general person and for someone getting to grips with basic marksmanship they are fine. While once you start using the gun seriously you might find it is a hinderance in split times that is about it. I am speaking from the perspective of general plinking and IPSC though, but my point stands even for longer range stuff if your fundamentals are there it will do just fine.

Regarding sights, I agree and disagree... While yes a RDS or LPVO makes it easier to shoot faster and most importantly more accurately compared with Iron Sights it once again comes down to basic marksmanship which is what most people lack... with guns in general.

In my experience unless you are shooting 1000's of rounds a month, rather invest it into ammo / reloading components on your new platform... it will serve you better in the long run and as a new to AR's shooter I am sure you won't miss the fancy stuff other than when bragging on the Gram, or around the braai.

Sincerely... a guy who should take his own advice

[WoodsieEC]

Cough Cough, Timney, La Rue and Hiperfire in my guns... All serve a different purpose for a different type of gun.
The only Geiselle I would spend the money on is a National Match.

Anyways, back to Marius post... I disagree regarding sights and trigger.
Mil Spec Triggers are plenty usable for the general person and for someone getting to grips with basic marksmanship they are fine. While once you start using the gun seriously you might find it is a hinderance in split times that is about it. I am speaking from the perspective of general plinking and IPSC though, but my point stands even for longer range stuff if your fundamentals are there it will do just fine.

Regarding sights, I agree and disagree... While yes a RDS or LPVO makes it easier to shoot faster and most importantly more accurately compared with Iron Sights it once again comes down to basic marksmanship which is what most people lack... with guns in general.

In my experience unless you are shooting 1000's of rounds a month, rather invest it into ammo / reloading components on your new platform... it will serve you better in the long run and as a new to AR's shooter I am sure you won't miss the fancy stuff other than when bragging on the Gram, or around the braai.

Sincerely... a guy who should take his own advice

I'm luck to already have most of the reloading equipment for .223. I have an old rifle (hand me down) in .223 and have been loading for it for a long time. I just need to get a progressive press to speed things up. Have also started playing with 9mm loads, which is currently slow on a single press. While I wait for the license to be approved I am able to start stocking up on components (powder, brass, primers, bullets). Once fired brass, luckily, is cheap and readily available.

I am a huge fan of trigger upgrades. Did one on my CM and if I had know the value it added, I would have done it 1st. That upgraded saved me thousands of Rand's and took my precision shooting to a whole new level, especially past 400m.
I wont add an upgraded trigger to my AR yet, as its not that kind of tool.

I have come up with a game plan, after all the attached advice.......
1.) I'm going to pair my AR with a Vortex Diamondback Tactical (4-16x44 FFP), to start as I have a spare one from an old rifle.
2.) Develop a load for the AR (I would like to use a 60gr + bullet due to the 1in8 barrel).
3.) Spend time on the bench shooting, getting to know the firearm, its capabilities and build confidence with it by shooting paper & steel.
4.) Reassess optics and invest in the correct platform for competitions (iron sights or optics)
5.) practice, practice, practice
6.) compete
7.) lift trophies

[Wesley]

I'm luck to already have most of the reloading equipment for .223. I have an old rifle (hand me down) in .223 and have been loading for it for a long time. I just need to get a progressive press to speed things up. Have also started playing with 9mm loads, which is currently slow on a single press. While I wait for the license to be approved I am able to start stocking up on components (powder, brass, primers, bullets). Once fired brass, luckily, is cheap and readily available.

I am a huge fan of trigger upgrades. Did one on my CM and if I had know the value it added, I would have done it 1st. That upgraded saved me thousands of Rand's and took my precision shooting to a whole new level, especially past 400m.
I wont add an upgraded trigger to my AR yet, as its not that kind of tool.

I have come up with a game plan, after all the attached advice.......
1.) I'm going to pair my AR with a Vortex Diamondback Tactical (4-16x44 FFP), to start as I have a spare one from an old rifle.
2.) Develop a load for the AR (I would like to use a 60gr + bullet due to the 1in8 barrel).
3.) Spend time on the bench shooting, getting to know the firearm, its capabilities and build confidence with it by shooting paper & steel.
4.) Reassess optics and invest in the correct platform for competitions (iron sights or optics)
5.) practice, practice, practice
6.) compete
7.) lift trophies

Good for you!

Just a note:

By deciding to go with a bullet that is not available in bulk packs, you have effectively doubled your ammunition cost. You can really just settle for 55gr Hornady FMJ’s. You’ll shoot twice as much.

When you do your load development, make sure the load you decide on makes the required power factor for the game you will be playing.

We look forward to seeing you at a match sometime soon.

[Marius@Jizni]

Mil Spec Triggers are plenty usable for the general person and for someone getting to grips with basic marksmanship they are fine. While once you start using the gun seriously you might find it is a hinderance in split times that is about it.

If anything, it's the other way round. A good trigger will help you more with accuracy than with splits.

[FNBROWNING]

I think the problem is that we mostly see commercial spec rifles. A good milspec trigger is as close as dammit to a Geissele SSA. Now you can move up and use the likes of the National Match or Wilson TTU etc and no question that they are sweet but it all eventually becomes a bit like the difference between an expensive mountain bike and a moderately priced one.

[Grobbie]

If anything, it's the other way round. A good trigger will help you more with accuracy than with splits.

How effective are those spring kits you stock?

Does it mess with reliability?


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[Stevin]

If anything, it's the other way round. A good trigger will help you more with accuracy than with splits.

You make it sound as if a Mil Spec AR Trigger is like pulling a bad Double Action Revolver Trigger. Even bad AR Triggers you can very easily shoot as accurately as is needed in all the action sports, and as a novice in any other disciple it is most likely not the part that would be holding you back. Once again it comes down to basic marksmanship. All a good trigger is going to do is mask lack of fundamentals. This is "mostly" true for most shooters with all guns. Again the exception being those who spend time on training to the point where a trigger, or tuning a different recoil impulse or weight balance on the gun, etc helps them edge out the added 100th's of performance they require.

One thing that can't be argued it that a good trigger does always make a nicer gun to shoot it's just a given.

Then again it depends what ones definition of a "good" trigger is. That will vary from person to person.

[Marius@Jizni]

How effective are those spring kits you stock?

Does it mess with reliability?


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Look at it this way:

- It costs about the same as a full mag of ammo. If you never get to the range, a mag of ammo is a lot. If you do get to the range, even infrequently, one mag of practice is not going to improve your shooting dramatically. So it is worth a try.

- It also costs about 5% of a good drop-in trigger. So if there is more than a 5% chance of precluding such an expensive upgrade, it is worth a try. In my case, it only postponed the costs of a Timney trigger, and it was money well spent.

I see some customers upgrading later to a drop-in trigger, and some not. I don't think anybody can install it and not notice a significant improvement, though.

It includes two different weight hammer springs, allowing you to balance reliability with weight.

[Marius@Jizni]

If anything, it's the other way round. A good trigger will help you more with accuracy than with splits.

You make it sound as if a Mil Spec AR Trigger is like pulling a bad Double Action Revolver Trigger. Even bad AR Triggers you can very easily shoot as accurately as is needed in all the action sports, and as a novice in any other disciple it is most likely not the part that would be holding you back. Once again it comes down to basic marksmanship. All a good trigger is going to do is mask lack of fundamentals. This is "mostly" true for most shooters with all guns. Again the exception being those who spend time on training to the point where a trigger, or tuning a different recoil impulse or weight balance on the gun, etc helps them edge out the added 100th's of performance they require.

One thing that can't be argued it that a good trigger does always make a nicer gun to shoot it's just a given.

Then again it depends what ones definition of a "good" trigger is. That will vary from person to person.

No, I make it sound like you should know the reason why you install an upgrade. (Or don't.)

- If someone wants to upgrade an AR trigger to improve splits, I would also say no.

- If you want to improve accuracy, it starts to make sense but more so, as WoodsieEC pointed out, at longer ranges.

- If you want to maximise your own improvement, though, you get to the point of my first post. "Basic marksmanship" covers a wide range of fundamentals and the better you can isolate something, the better you can practice it. And accuracy is always my departure point. It just makes everything else easier, from load development to the shooting itself.

Yes, a heavy trigger isolates trigger control, and a creepy trigger isolates follow-through, so I wonder about the ideal time to upgrade, but trying to improve both while learning to use an aperture sight by way of plastic pop-up sights is not the best use of ammo.

[pblaauw]

How effective are those spring kits you stock?

Does it mess with reliability?

I bought one of Marius's kits (the Toni trigger spring kit). It's installed on a standard trigger that's in my Stag Arms AR15. Problem was that the springs didn't seem strong enough to hold the trigger pins in place, so first shot the trigger pin moved, and the trigger would not reset. You can see it happen here in the Tac Shac video of the match:

I took it to my gunsmith I trust, and he finely opened the grooves that the springs rest on more, and that seemed to temporarily solve the problem. I currently have on order a anti-walk kit for the AR pins. Now it's hard to say if the Toni spring kit caused the issue, or the pins, but I did not have the problem prior to having the Toni spring kit installed.