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  1. #1
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    Sep 2013
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    Default Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    Hi folks

    I'm in need of some help/guidance please...

    I applied for 2 x further competencies on 1 September for shotgun and self-loading rifle. My applications having been moving along nicely and are currently at the "Send to competency section" stage, which is great! However, after reading one of the threads in this section 1-2 weeks ago, I noticed that there seemed to be quite a few opinions as to how to complete the SAPS 517(a) form "correctly" for a self-loading rifle. There seems to be a school of thought that it's best to manually add a new "tick box" for self-loading rifle to avoid issues. Having only recently submitted my applications, I thought best to check with my super friendly and helpful DFO the next morning that my application had in fact been captured correctly.

    The news was unfortunately not great. Turns out the lady in the office had captured it incorrectly as a "normal" rifle competency application, and not a self-loading rifle/carbine application. Mistakes happen, fine. My DFO said not to worry though, it should get picked up at Provincial as they do additional checks to ensure the competency application is captured correctly and matches to the proficiency certificates provided (which in my case was for a self-loading rifle). He'll get back to me to check and confirm. The next day there was unfortunately more bad news - it had got through Provincial without being picked up, and is on its way to Pretoria with the incorrect competency type captured.

    My next question was what happens when they look at it? His response was that one of 2 outcomes are possible:
    1) The person assessing the application will see that the type of competency captured on the system is incorrect, will fix it, and happy days; OR
    2) They will reject it and return the application to the DFO. It can then be corrected on system and resubmitted, but this will obviously add a delay to an already lengthy process.

    My next thought was can I not hedge my bets by reapplying, but the feedback was that the application is linked to the proficiency certificate number, so it can't be linked to another competency application. He could hear the defeat in my voice and somewhat desperate questioning, so said not to worry, he'll try get hold of his contact in Pretoria (a lady Captain) and ask her to get it updated on the system before it hits the desk of someone who may be in a bad mood and not feel like doing the right thing and correcting the application on system. This was all about 2 weeks ago.

    I received a follow up call around a week and a half ago where he gave me some feedback to say he's emailed the Captain, but hasn't received any feedback yet. He'll follow up and get back to me. I decided to give him a nudge yesterday, and he let me know he's sent 2 follow up emails so far (which I believe), but still hasn't received any feedback. A few questions later around how we could try course correct before things go wrong and "what if" scenarios, he mentioned there may actually be a third outcome:
    3) They could end up approving my application in its incorrect state if they miss the proficiency certificate is actually for a SLR, in which case I could "score" a normal rifle competency.

    Problem is, I don't intend purchasing a bolt action rifle any time soon - I have a shiny AR sitting at the shop waiting for me, which I want to bring home as soon as possible. While this may seem like a score, it's probably the worst of the 3 outcomes for me. It not only means one helluva delay, it also means I'll probably need to redo my proficiency as I won't be able to link the existing certificate to a new application (as mentioned earlier). Which costs money I'd preferably not like to spend. Sure, I could probably lodge formal complaints and get the correct one issued, but this is a fight I don't feel like having if I can avoid it.

    My DFO has said he'll follow up again and keep me posted, which I'm grateful for, but I'd like to check with the folk here if anyone has had a similar issue. If so, what did you do to fix it before it becomes a PITA? Does anyone have contacts or email addresses for the right kind of people at CFR that could help course correct this before it goes wrong?

    Thanks in advance for the help.

  2. #2
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    Jul 2013
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    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    You could possibly get lucky. When I applied for slr and hand machine carbine (or something of that sort), I was awarded manually operated rifle competency as well despite never having done the proficiency cert for said unit standard.

    Very rarely the confusion and chaos works in your favor but most of the time not as we all know.

  3. #3
    User
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    Jan 2019
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    221B Baker Street
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    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    @The_kowz Greetings,

    I basically have a similar issue, so what happened with mine was it got captured at local station as my first competency although I already had a Handgun competency and it was two (2) competencies SLR & Shotgun (FYI: the officer drew a little box for me with her pen, when I questioned it). So it went to Provincial and then I was checking the tracking app one day, and it had this message “SEND BACK TO DFO” No status available contact the DFO.

    So the following day I went to the Police Station, long story short the application wasn’t there he said check back in two (2) weeks. So when my application was finally there the SGT. explained that Provincial made the error thinking this was my first competency and the officer that initially assisted me did not sign off on one of the pages. So that was 142 Calendar days wasted, the SGT. assured me that he will handle it, I insisted that let’s just do the application over from scratch, he basically refused and said he will sort it out. So on 19/10/2021 my application has again reached Provincial, waiting in suspense to see what happens.

    I guess the best option would be to insist to do the application over, from scratch if it is returned to your local DFO, otherwise hope for the best like I’m doing.
    Unfortunately I don’t have any “direct” contacts, however you can try and explain your situation via email to these addresses. All the best.
    PS: Your local DFO sounds helpful and polite, I would rather not comment on the Officers at my local station.

    cfrenquiry@saps.gov.za

    cfr.enquiries2@saps.gov.za

    firearms@saps.gov.za

    ComplaintsNodalpoint@saps.gov.za

    orsregis@saps.gov.za

    Tel: 012 353 6265

  4. #4
    User
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    Aug 2020
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    In the far corner
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    261

    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    Hi the_kowz, why doesn't your DFO cancel your current application and re-submit correctly or submit a additional application for SLR only ......... because in all likelihood the application will be approved as captured ........... with no SLR, and you will be told to make a new application for SLR only at a later stage..... but i am interested as to the outcome of your situation and please keep us updated.

    @Brendan88 ......... how did they capture as first application, one form is SAPS517 application for competency and the other is a SAPS517a application for further competency ........... i guess even with headings for guidance they still get it wrong ......

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    @BradTH,

    I honestly believe the female Officer that was assisting me the first time, messed up somewhere and didn’t sign or initial a page that she should have and instead of owning up to it, they point fingers at the Provincial office. The SGT. that was there the second time (that seems to know at least what his doing) was also not going to throw her under the bus.
    PS: If you can avoid Roodepoort Police station, let me again not comment further.

  6. #6
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    Jun 2020
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    Centurion
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    59
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    304

    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    This happened to me too. The DFO didn't add a block for SLR on the 517(a) form, so despite all the supporting documents and proficiency certificates being for a SLR - I was issued with a manual rifle competency - so much for CFR's verification process.

    So I then re-applied making sure to add the SLR block myself on the 517(a) form, and the SLR competency was issued no problem. This was a couple of years ago before the extreme delays we now see.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    Greetings paulnb,

    I cannot understand how CFR or even Provincial does verification, but anyways.
    Easy to solve create/edit the form and add a BOX for the the missing ones, oh ja it's SAPS my bad.

    So at the end of the day you basically got a “FREE” manually operated rifle competency WITHOUT doing the proficiency training and they used your SLR proficiency certificates, numbers etc for both?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    Hi Branden your statement is a 100% correct.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Help: rifle competency application captured incorrectly

    Quote Originally Posted by paulnb View Post
    Hi Branden your statement is a 100% correct.
    Now I guess the next question would be, when are you getting your bolt action rifle ?

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