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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    My 2c my father past in 2020 and was quick with no will had to draw one up in matter of 2 days and signed infront of a commissioner of oath. The 3 sons was appointed executors and with the help of a attorney we are rounding up the estate

    Take note
    If an outside person is the executor they can place any value on items and sell also place values on items and load the total value of estate and they get 10% of total estate value as payment ....
    For example to keep estate value down
    The property use counsel value not bank
    Vehicle's we buy cars low values
    Fire arms get your gunship friend :)
    The lower you can get all values the less the estate the less the fee for rounding up
    You sell out of hand and pay into L&D "liquidation and distriburation account" of the attorney

    But you still need an attorney

  2. #12

    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    What SSP said.
    "Trespassers will be welcomed, and served a light lunch"

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SASwart View Post
    The bank part I understand, but this wrong advice iro appointing attorneys... Traditionally this is a lawyers job, they get tested in attorney exams on wills and winding up. If there is a property that needs transfer...attorney (conveyancer) involved, I can make the list long... What I will say and I guess that is where your gripe lies, is that attorneys require payment of the executor fees, which I admit some may ask the full prescribed fee... but whoever is appointed may ask that fee, not just attorneys.

    @Gary-T - Whether you appoint attorney, bank, estate professional (person who only studies wills - attorney did the same course...) make sure you negotiate the executor fees and all other fees.

    What happens is the Executor is appointed, let say the convenient estate professional. This person asks the executor fee of 3.5% (excl VAT). But this person goes and appoints an auditor or an CA (more expensive), the property needs to be transferred (conveyancing fees) etc. etc. All these fees are taken from the estate.

    Bottom line, get someone you trust, whether attorney, family, financial planner, auditor etc. who is willing to talk on the fee, it is not necessary to make the executor rich at expense of heirs

    Sound advice.

  4. #14
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    Quote Originally Posted by Ds J View Post
    S

    Go to an honest and capable chartered accountant, and have them draw up a proper will. Your wife gets to be executor with the option to get in any necessary type of help.
    I have seen about as many CAs cock up wills as I have banks.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  5. #15
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    Quote Originally Posted by jehan View Post
    My 2c my father past in 2020 and was quick with no will had to draw one up in matter of 2 days and signed infront of a commissioner of oath. The 3 sons was appointed executors and with the help of a attorney we are rounding up the estate
    A comissioner of oaths has nothing to do with whether a will is validly drawn unless the person signing the will does so on behalf of a testator who cannot do so himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by jehan View Post
    If an outside person is the executor they can place any value on items and sell also place values on items and load the total value of estate and they get 10% of total estate value as payment ....
    Absolutely untrue. Executors must provide vouchers demonstrating values. They don't get to make them up. The statutory fee is 3.5% of the gross asset value of the estate not 10%.

    Quote Originally Posted by jehan View Post
    You sell out of hand and pay into L&D "liquidation and distriburation account" of the attorney
    A liquidation and distribution account is not a bank account. It is an accounting of the assets and liabilities of the estate and sets out how the proceeds will be distributed. Monies collected are paid into an estate late bank account.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  6. #16

    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    Im a Cost Management Accountant. With my Father in laws passing away my Mother in law was executor in the will.

    We went with her to several attorneys to negotiate fixed fee.

    We settled on Attorney firm in CPT. Not even one of the lawyers handled it. But a clerk.

    But as par of the price structure we did most of the work. The Clerk took my qualifications and submitted to the Masters office and I was appointed by master with signing rights.

    I merely signed off on most with the Clerk.

    So a Chartered Accountant is not even needed. Merely someone with Accounting studied background.

    And off course a Attorneys firm to assist with some of steps and transfers of property.

    But you can save alot this way. After his one I assisted some other people this way in same way.

    As to me paying that percentage is a money making unfair step. As there is no difference is transferring a 1000 000 property and a 2000 000 one. Its the same paperwork same amount of effort. But the Executors want 3.5% plus VAT so 40 000 more to do the one over the other.

    And when it comes to estates. The house cars and other assets quickly become alot.

    And then somehow the wife in case where husband dies. Suddenly have to fork out alot of cash for stuff she and her husband shared for their lifetime.

    Anyhow. guess the banks is in it to make money. But there is cheaper ways if you setup will correct and take time to negotiate with lawyers and look at options.

    Do take all advice given above.

    But do not lock any firm or company in on will as executor.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    [QUOTE=SSP;1440805]A comissioner of oaths has nothing to do with whether a will is validly drawn unless the person signing the will does so on behalf of a testator who cannot do so himself.

    You are corect sir in all your statements

    we had to use a comissioner of oath as my father was unable to sign... only by movement of limbs would be taken as acknowledgement he agrees

    the banks or attorneys executors won't try and get the lowest value / QUOTE for example the value we received from one was 80K we buy cars was 20k so wich one would be used to add to estate ... yes agree the documents need to be shown ... it's all about trying to keep the over all estate value down
    Now we had 4 vehicles and would have come to value of about 380k .... but ended up with documentation of total 80k for all .... i sold privately and saved the estate a few K



    I'm by no means a financial expert or deal with estates ect I can only convey what we did and learned as it happened ... and still busy with the estate

    What ever and how ever you still need the assistance of the attorney
    What I was trying to say is if the executor can keep the values or seek the lowest values of items "with documentation " it would keep the estate value down and inturn this will make rounding up fees less

    So in short a family member will keep this in mind where a bank or some one else will just get quotes and submit and not putting a effort to try and save as much as posible

    Give more thought of appointing an executor than just have a package deal set up

    Once again I'm not a professional nor have any background at all and can only state how we dealt/ dealing with it at this stage
    Last edited by jehan; 18-11-2021 at 10:17. Reason: Editing was incorrect

  8. #18
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    Quote Originally Posted by shooty View Post

    As to me paying that percentage is a money making unfair step. As there is no difference is transferring a 1000 000 property and a 2000 000 one. Its the same paperwork same amount of effort. But the Executors want 3.5% plus VAT so 40 000 more to do the one over the other.
    You are conflating two entirely different things.

    Conveyancing fees are dictated by a tariff and are determined on a sliding scale based on sale price or valuation. Those fees are what they are, and conveyancers generally do not charge less than tariff lest they be accused of touting - which is unprofessional conduct.

    The 3.5% fee is a statutory fee for the winding up the estate, but does not include the costs and disbursements, such as conveyancing fees, associated therewith.

    That said there is no reason at all why one should not negotiate with the attorney assisting you with winding up an estate. Most will be accommodating. For what its worth, I generally draw a bill of costs on my ordinary attorney and client rate and compare that to the 3.5% and agree with my client to charge the lesser of the two.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  9. #19
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    [QUOTE=jehan;1440813]
    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    A comissioner of oaths has nothing to do with whether a will is validly drawn unless the person signing the will does so on behalf of a testator who cannot do so himself.

    You are corect sir in all your statements

    we had to use a comissioner of oath as my father was unable to sign... only by movement of limbs would be taken as acknowledgement he agrees

    the banks or attorneys executors won't try and get the lowest value / QUOTE for example the value we received from one was 80K we buy cars was 20k so wich one would be used to add to estate ... yes agree the documents need to be shown ... it's all about trying to keep the over all estate value down
    Now we had 4 vehicles and would have come to value of about 380k .... but ended up with documentation of total 80k for all .... i sold privately and saved the estate a few K



    I'm by no means a financial expert or deal with estates ect I can only convey what we did and learned as it happened ... and still busy with the estate

    What ever and how ever you still need the assistance of the attorney
    What I was trying to say is if the executor can keep the values or seek the lowest values of items "with documentation " it would keep the estate value down and inturn this will make rounding up fees less

    So in short a family member will keep this in mind where a bank or some one else will just get quotes and submit and not putting a effort to try and save as much as posible

    Give more thought of appointing an executor than just have a package deal set up

    Once again I'm not a professional nor have any background at all and can only state how we dealt/ dealing with it at this stage
    Presenting documents as vouchers in support of values in an L&D account and then selling the assets for more than those values and failing to account for them accurately in an account may well be fraud. It is also certainly and an offence in terms of the Administration of Estates Act.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  10. #20

    Default Re: Wills and Estate planning

    As SSP says above.

    Dont F! around by changing values lower. Yes it saves on costs if a percentage is taken as executors fee on total estate.

    But if your caught out it could end up expensive and alot more painfull.

    Even where I did in assistance with a Lawyer Firm. I made sure to get in all cases more then one valuation from reputable places. For value of house and cars before submitting.

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