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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    I have come full circle back to cup and core at .308 velocities and bonded/premium for the .270

    On medium and small game the mono's just so often take too long to kill, unless they hit bone, then they shine above the rest.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    The 3 wildebeest bulls jostled for position today in the shade the upcoming heatwave in their minds. They had evaded their legal range and entered SANPARKS territory. Being non endemic they were forbidden the lush acacia karoo saplings across the steel line and destined for another path. One 45 grain .224 cup and core bullet ( thanks Treeman) and two 55 grain cup and core bullets an hour later did their job between 83m and 289m.

    With the above in mind tongue in cheek, with the world of technology, information etc al at our touchscreen there is no right and wrong answer anymore but rather an area whereby we should easily have the available data to make informed decisions on what bullet is best for what application. Used within their designed parameters there is no real discussion.



    With all of that said I've realized most of civilization struggle to make an informed decision with available data. Always err on the side of caution matching your experience when it comes to hunting. Regarding the weights in expanding monos as per the original post I think there is a fair amount of leeway between weights and certain calibers when it comes to any bullet. This shows in the debate in topics as per the OP.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    Percentage wise failures with cup and core, and other lead core bullets, are in the low single digits or lower, % wise, in my experience.
    However, I have not had a single failure with mono metal expanding bullets that could be attributed to the bullet.
    And in my experience they do not take long to kill. But there are factors that influence this. Shot placement being the major one. You do want to hit the center of the lungs or the heart or the major arteries above the heart. Shots behind the shoulder (on broadside animals) hitting only the rear lobes of the lungs will probably take long to kill.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    Quote Originally Posted by TStone View Post
    Percentage wise failures with cup and core, and other lead core bullets, are in the low single digits or lower, % wise, in my experience.
    However, I have not had a single failure with mono metal expanding bullets that could be attributed to the bullet.
    And in my experience they do not take long to kill. But there are factors that influence this. Shot placement being the major one. You do want to hit the center of the lungs or the heart or the major arteries above the heart. Shots behind the shoulder (on broadside animals) hitting only the rear lobes of the lungs will probably take long to kill.
    I would bet that failures with mono expanding bullets are mostly caused by poor bullet selection, which is a user error. A long time ago Winchester loaded some factory ammo with black-coated mono bullets. These had a huge amount of failures to expand reported. What were they called again? "Fail Safe" or something like that. They seem to have learned since then.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    How do hollow-point monolithic projectiles perform for you on game? Do they pass the expansion criteria?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    Failure cup and core, zero proven likely 2 or 3 animals in 30 years.
    Failure monolithic, zero proven likely 2 or 3 animals in 30 years.

    Since failures mean I lost the animal, I have not been able to say bullet failure.

    I have shot numerous animals behind the shoulders, purposely missing both shoulders with both bullet types and the mono's always resulted in long and longer than lead core bullets dash, much longer runs. I posted this when I first used the Barns TTSX bullets on a Impala cull using the 7mm 08. Some of the responses were that there is no perfect bullet and behind the shoulders was the least effective shot placement for Mono Bullets. I still believe Mono's are likely better bullets, but they more specific in their requirements.
    I would say that demanding shots are far more likely to succeed using Monos than lead core bullets. I have as said before found that simple shots meeting little resistance, Springbuck, Duiker, Impala rib to rib shots, they run far before expiring.
    Shoulder to shoulder the mono's seem to work much better. I now have recovered 4 x 130 gr TTSX 7 mm bullets delivered at 2900 + fps from Kudu, all under far side skin. 2 kudu shot on shoulder collapsed on the spot and two shot behind shoulders ran 150+ m. Bullets recovered were from the animals that collapsed on the spot. I have also recovered perhaps 2 of same bullets from about 15 b/pig some ran some dropped right there, the ones that ran some?, I believe a cup and core bullet same shot placement (not best placement) would have dropped them DRT - in fact I know a cheap bullet would have been better on those poorly placed shots.
    Cody shot (mono)6 pigs - 4 dropped, 2 ran,one found and one lost.
    I shot (cup core) 6 pigs 1 ran, gone never seen again.

    I have found that a wounded (good shot that did not kill as expected) cup and core animal is done and if you watch it it will stop and die or at least stop for you.
    I honestly believe from watching the same kind of wounding, the shot you sure of that just did not drop the animal, with a mono bullet they just live longer, much longer, sometimes even seeming to recover a bit.
    A shot that is marginal with a cup and core bullet can often be fluked for a good kill just because the bullet comes apart and perhaps reeks more havoc because it deforms so horrifically (read meat damage = organ damage further on)
    A marginal shot with a mono is just a hole through and through.

    Angled shots through stomach, or from rear with a mono are mostly not a problem, same can be said to a very slightly lessor degree for a bonded bullet, but same shot with a cup and you just not going to win.

    These are my findings to date, have said so even through my GS Custom love affair.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    Messor and Driepoots are staunch believers in the Barns TTSX , and you can not fault their findings, they are absolutely brilliant bullets, but i just believe they are a bit to precise. Razor blades and ax's so to say - you can shave with a razor blade, its so sharp its amazing, best thing ever, but can you cut a tree down with a razor ? Or shave with a axe?

    I was a Mono man before most guys here on GS (GS Custom and Frontier), but I think now, if I had to choose one bullet again, as my only bullet ever to have, well!, blush and look down and fidget a bit, Nosler Partition will likely be it.

    Big Tits, small Tits, both so desirable - both so costly and both will get you into sweaty situations for no predictable reason.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    Hey, treeman…Swift A-Frame 250 grain .375’s are $94 for a box of 50 at MidwayUSA. That just the bullets, for loading your own.
    Think I’ll stick to lead monolithics, myself…cheaper that way.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    It’s not a hard debate, I‘ve said from the beginning soft point bullets kill quicker, you all know this.
    And, I’ve never struggled to kill anything, with any bullet, killing an animal is a result of the skillset of the shooter, not the bullet, the bullet is a tool, the shooter is the operator.

    I still shoot ALL bullets, because I don’t intend to fool myself, it’s like people blaming a missed kick in a rugby game for the loss, dude, a rugby game is 80min long, what did you do for the rest of the game if you blame the outcome on one kick????

    A hunter should put himself in the position to place his bullet in the required position, the bullet has little say in this equation, you can coin and phrase this and let it be, it will remain the constant for as long as we all live.

    Either you are a hunter or you are not, the second the blame game starts you are the latter.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Monolithic Expanding Bullets, Weight and Velocity.

    Quote Originally Posted by dammitgriff View Post
    How do hollow-point monolithic projectiles perform for you on game? Do they pass the expansion criteria?
    Yes. On game ranging in size from steenbok to eland and cape buffalo, I have never had a problem.

    To be fair, I have hunted (myself and guiding clients) the same range of game using cup and core bullets and had 9 failures (that I can recall), where bullets broke up and failed to penetrate to the vitals. In all of these cases the failed bullets were recovered after the animals were shot again. I had one more experience where I believe the bullet, a 200gr Hornady ELD-x from a .300 Weatherby Magnum, failed on a gemsbok but as we never recovered that gemsbok I am only guessing.
    Still that is 9 out of far more than a 1000, which is less than 1%.

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