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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TStone View Post
    So, if you load a .308 win and a .30-'06 Springfield (in identical rifles) with the same bullet at the same velocity, using a slower powder in the .30-'06, the .30-'06 will have the "softer" recoil impulse?
    I would not call it recoil impulse, because if you ask me it doesn’t describe what AR is referring to, and now things get tricky.
    If you load a 308 with S335, an 180gr bullet to 2500ft/s and you load a 30-06 with S365, an 180gr bullet to 2500ft/s, then the 30-06 will have more:
    Recoil energy
    Recoil velocity
    Recoil impulse

    Now if you ask me, none of this explains what people mean when they say “softer”, I mean if all numbers are bigger how can it shoot softer?
    Now I might get the terminology incorrect but my closest guess to what people mean is force over time, Pirate can correct me later where I am wrong.

    Let’s say you shoot a rifle with a brass butsttock, and then you shoot it with a decelerator pad, we all know which ones hurt more, right, but why, the recoil values are the same?
    It’s because of how the momentum is handled by the shooter, how the shooter kicks the rifle, momentum is just mass times velocity.
    And yes, a shooter kicks the rifle, one of the pesky Newton laws, the question is then why would people be more comfortable with a slower burning powder at the same speed?

    I would say it’s a combination of several things, firstly, peak force is much faster in the 308, secondly, bullet travel to muzzle is a lot faster in the 308, thirdly, the peak force of the rifle recoil is much higher in the 308.

    So basically, in the 30-06 you will have a slightly higher force but over more time, in the 308 you will have less force over a shorter time.
    Force over time, something no recoil calculator can calculate, it’s unique to the shooter, it’s why a rifle will kick a normal woman less than a bodybuilder, the woman will go with the rifle and hence the force over a longer time, the bodybuilder will absorb the momentum faster, hence will get kicked more.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. And admitting that the .30-'06 is the better caliber for recoil sensitive souls when hand-loaded to the same velocity as a .308 win
    I am not disputing the theory. I can't tell the difference in recoil between a .416 rem mag and a .404 when loaded to the same level (nor a .308 and a .30-'06 nor between a .300 win mag, a .300 wsm and a .300 H&H) but some people obviously can. But I have been accused of being insensitive
    What I do know is that different people react to recoil in very different and unpredictable ways. I watch a lot of people shoot various calibers every year and there is absolutely no way of predicting (going on size, fitness level, gender or general appearance) how well they will handle recoil. What I have noticed is that if someone expect a certain caliber to hurt them it does and if they have no such expectations it doesn't, except in extremely powerful calibers.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    Now if you ask me, none of this explains what people mean when they say “softer”, I mean if all numbers are bigger how can it shoot softer?
    I get "softer" recoil from my big bores when I use a faster burning powder, for the same velocity as a slower burning powder, with full power loads.

    I've noticed a big increase in felt recoil in my 500 Jeffery, for example, when I load to a particular velocity with a slower burner, like IMR 4451, compared to the same velocity using a faster burner, like IMR 4166.

    I noticed a bigger difference in recoil between using S335 and S365, compared to the difference between 4166 and 4451.

    The only quantitative difference is the amount of powder, there is more powder in the slower burning load.

    This means that recoil is not just from the weight of the bullet and the velocity, the volume of generated gas matters as well.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    Yes. Personal experiences will differ as there are many variables at play, including things like physical build and muscle tension and/or tone.

    A bigger contributor to more or less perceived recoil is the shape of the stock. If you look at the stock design used by Art Alphin on his A-square big bore rifles, that shape was not developed for it's fantastic looks, but for better recoil management. Especially the height and angle of the comb and the shape and position of the pistol grip are a great help here. On a custom DG rifle, I would want such a stock.

  5. #35
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    Default Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    I saw this girl shooting a .458 Winchester Magnum from standing position off shooting sticks. She shot several times.


  6. #36
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    Default Re: Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    Quote Originally Posted by dammitgriff View Post
    I saw this girl shooting a .458 Winchester Magnum from standing position off shooting sticks. She shot several times.

    That first shot destroys her


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    My 2 cents:

    I have once shot the following in a row, 2 shots each, have no idea what loads the gent giving me the experience used:

    416 Rem
    416 Rigby
    404 Jeff
    458 Win
    458 Lott
    505 Gibbs

    It got fliipin sore after the first 3.

    Anyway, the 404 felt like the least recoil of them all with the 458 Lott hurting the most. The Gibbs had tremendous recoil, but was “slower” than the Lott

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Experiences with the 404 Jeffery?

    seems about correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    My 2 cents:

    I have once shot the following in a row, 2 shots each, have no idea what loads the gent giving me the experience used:

    416 Rem
    416 Rigby
    404 Jeff
    458 Win
    458 Lott
    505 Gibbs

    It got fliipin sore after the first 3.

    Anyway, the 404 felt like the least recoil of them all with the 458 Lott hurting the most. The Gibbs had tremendous recoil, but was “slower” than the Lott

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