Firearms Guardian Insurance

[Paul]

This served as a handy reminder. Went to check my GOSA membership and realised that it had lapsed. have just renewed it and will diarise renewals for future.

We should have sent you a reminder before it expired.

Please PM me your name so I can follow up and see why you didn't get a reminder.

[oafpatroll]

We should have sent you a reminder before it expired.

Please PM me your name so I can follow up and see why you didn't get a reminder.

Incoming

[Branden88]

Read the FINEPRINT. Specific the exclusions. Think my current Personal insurance offers much more at a much better price. Not a Law expert, but I see the same cover as the other insurance that did not get off the ground. For e.g. cannot use BG gun to defend yourself. Cannot give your gun to wife to help shoot. Cannot use when you run your business etc etc.

@Zuku,

I’ve read through the policy documents, where does it state,

“Cannot give your gun to wife to help shoot. Cannot use when you run your business”.
And that you cannot use the attacker/s weapon to defend yourself? Is that what you meant by “BG gun”?

Then secondly, the exclusions are as any insurance exclusions in my opinion, I’ve copied ALL of it from the policy / brochure documents, below

Lastly, could you please elaborate on what it exactly is so that I can go and research it, it would be extremely helpful if there is a better policy out there that can cover a person specifically in “Self Defence” incident etc, your current Personal Insurance does it specifically cover you for the following ?

THE POLICY PROVIDES:

1. Administrative Legal Assistance relating to:
• Unfit declarations to possess a firearm.
• Appeals against a declined firearm licence application.
• Situations with the furnishing of an approved licence application by the South African Police Services (SAPS).

2. Criminal Prosecution/Defence relating to:
• Murder.
• Attempted murder.
• Culpable Homicide.
• Assault.
• Assault with the intention to cause grievous bodily harm.
• Hunting related prosecutions.
• Injury/loss/damage to persons or property resulting from the use of a firearm.
• Shooting accidents on hunting trips, sport shooting events, or firearm training sessions.
• Bail applications.
• Bail payments up to R3,000.
• Appeals in respect of all firearm-related prosecutions.

3. Specific transgressions in terms of the Firearms Control Act 60 of 2000 relating to:
• Unlawful possession of a firearm.
• If You are aware that a person possesses a firearm illegally and fail to report this to the police.
• Causing bodily injury to a person or damage to property by negligently using a firearm.
• Discharging a firearm in a manner likely to injure or endanger the safety or property of any
person.
• Having control over a loaded firearm in circumstances where it creates a risk to the safety or property of another and not taking reasonable precautions to avoid the danger.
• Giving control of a firearm to a person whom You know, or ought to have known, to be mentally ill, or to be under the influence of a substance which has an intoxicating or a narcotic effect.
• Point a firearm at another person without good cause.
• Discharging a firearm in a built-up area or public place.
• Failure to lock away the firearm which You have in Your possession in a prescribed safe,
strong-room or device for safekeeping.
• Lost firearm owing to a failure to lock it away in a safe, strong-room or safekeeping device,
or failure to take reasonable steps to prevent its loss or failure to keep the keys to the safe,
strong-room or device in safe custody.
• Giving possession of a firearm or ammunition to a person that is not licenced to possess such firearm or ammunition.
• Failure to report a lost, stolen or destroyed firearm.
• Carrying or storing a firearm in a firearm-free zone.
• Deactivation of a firearm.
• Carrying of a firearm in a public place.
• Allowing any person to use their firearm while not under their immediate supervision, where it is safe to use the firearm and for a lawful purpose.
• Using a firearm where it is not safe to do so.
• Notification of address change.
• Notification of any change concerning any information which was submitted in respect of the application for issuing of a licence.
• Disposing of a firearm after cancellation of a licence.
• Lost, stolen or defaced licences.
• Production of licences and firearms for inspection.
• Failure to comply with conditions of a firearm licence.
• Failure to comply with any provision, direction or requirement of a notice issued under the Firearms Control Act.
• Unlawful possession of ammunition.
• Possessing an excessive number of cartridges.
• Possessing more than the allowed number of primers.

4. Civil Law matters related to the use of a firearm relating to:
• Disputes relating to the purchase of firearms.
• Firearms forming part of an Estate;
• Damages consequent to the death or injury of a third party which occurs in connection
with Your use of a firearm.
• Loss of or damage to property, which occurs in connection with Your use of a firearm.
• Civil claims arising out of unlawful or unlicenced hunting with Your firearm by another
person.
• Shooting accidents during:
- Hunting trips
- Sport shooting events,
- Firearm training sessions,
- Practicing at a shooting range, or
- Normal handling of a firearm such as cleaning and setting up of a rifle.
• Insured Matters in respect of instructions to hunting safari packages
• Damage to hunting equipment.
• Damage to hunting facilities.
• Insured Matters in respect of instructions to Taxidermists.
• Damage or loss of trophy at an arranged hunt or shoot/shooting expedition.
• Insured Matters related to practising at a shooting range.
• Insured Matters related to Your participation in sport shooting events.
• Insured Matters related to Your engagement in firearm training.

5. General Civil Law Matters
In addition to the civil law matters mentioned in 4 above, the Firearms Guardian policy also
covers the legal expenses in respect of the following civil law matters related to the use of a
firearm:
• Drafting of legal opinions.
• Unlawful arrest by SAPS and Metro Police.
• Malpractice by doctors.
• Negligence in hospitals.
• Disputes with medical aid situations.
• Consumer related legal situations.
• Guarantees and Warrantees.
• Defective goods.
• Disputes or complaints with insurance companies.
• Personal and bodily injuries.
• Situations with the neighbours.
• Protection orders.

6. Motor Related Matters
This benefit is limited to the use of a vehicle for purposes of hunting, firearm training, sport
shooting and emergencies related to the use of a firearm:
• Criminal prosecution relating to Motor Vehicle Accidents.
• Drunken driving.
• Reckless or Negligent Driving.
• Culpable Homicide as a result of an accident.
• RAF (Road Accident Fund) Claims.
You are covered against a liability claim in respect of all uses of Your firearm, including:
• Hunting and sporting accidents.
• Accidental discharge.
• Self-defence.



Here is ALL the exclusions for this policy.




GENERAL EXCLUSIONS:


Riots, public disorder, terrorism
Generally, this refers to loss or damage to property, death or bodily injury or liability directly or indirectly related
to or caused by riots, political acts, war, public disorder, terrorism, or any attempted act of this kind for which
We cannot reasonably be held responsible. They include.

• Civil commotion, labour disturbances, riot, strike, lockout or public disorder, or any act or activity which is calculated or directed to bring about any of the foregoing.
• War, invasion, an act of a foreign enemy, hostilities, or warlike operations (whether war be declared or not), or civil war.
• Mutiny, military uprising, military or usurped power, martial law or state of siege, or any other event or cause which determines the proclamation or maintenance of martial law, or state of siege, insurrection, rebellion, or revolution.
• Any act or attempted act (whether on behalf of any organisation, body or person, or group of persons) calculated or directed to overthrow or influence any state or government, or any provincial, local, or tribal authority with force, or using fear, terrorism, or violence.
• Any act or attempted act which is calculated or directed to bring about loss or damage or bodily injury, to further any political aim, objective, or cause or to bring about any social or economic change, or in protest against any state or government, or any provincial, local, or tribal authority, or for inspiring fear in the public, or any section thereof.
• The act of any lawfully established authority in controlling, preventing, suppressing, or in any other way dealing with any occurrence referred to above.
• Any act of terrorism. An act of terrorism means the use of threat or violence or force for political, religious, personal, or ideological reasons. This may or may not include an activity that is harmful to human life. It could be committed by any person or group of persons, acting alone, on behalf of, or with any organisation or government. It includes any act committed with the intention to influence any government or inspire fear in the public.


POLICY SPECIFIC EXCLUSIONS:

In respect of the Legal Assistance Cover as well as the Liability Cover, this Policy excludes: • Claims instituted after 31 days from the date of the occurrence of an Insured Matter or the occurrence of the cause or grounds of action in respect of that Insured Matter, or after 31 days from the date on which You became aware of such occurrence or a claim against You that falls within the ambit of an Insured Matter.
• All matters not specifically included as Insured Matters.
• The use of an unlicenced firearm.
• Insured Matters that occurred outside the borders of Republic of South Africa.
• All legal actions, whether actual or contemplated, brought against the Insurer and/or Insuresense by You and/or Your Beneficiaries.
• All legal actions, whether actual or contemplated, instituted against You by the Beneficiaries.
• Claims directly or indirectly arising from You or Your Beneficiaries discharging a firearm under the following circumstances: Suicide, Attempted suicide, Intentional self-injury.



In respect of the Legal Assistance Cover, this Policy further excludes:
• The payment of any fine, penalty, tax, levy, any witness fee, any costs pertaining to expert witnesses and expert witness reports except ballistic expert costs, travelling or subsistence costs, any payment or reimbursement of money to You.
• Indemnification against payment of claims or damages awarded against You in legal proceedings.
• Any order in legal proceedings, made in respect of legal expenses, in favour of Your opponent in such proceedings.
• Litigation and representation services regarding events or circumstances which had commenced or occurred or where the cause or grounds of action in respect of those events or circumstances arose before the inception of the Policy or within the Waiting Periods as well as agreements that were entered into by You before the inception date of this Policy or within the 3-month Waiting Period.
• Matters related to the operating of Your business, trade or profession.
• Matters related to Your professional sporting activities.
• Any matter related to the ownership, possession and/or use of a firearm of which You are not the licenced owner.
• Legal Services that are purely administrative in nature.
• Any Matters relating to: Firearm licence applications submitted to the SAPS before the inception of this policy. Loss of or damage to any vehicle as a result of an accident. Events that are, in the sole opinion of Insuresense, trivial and / or should be adjudicated in the small claims Court. Protection orders regarding disputes between You and your immediate family members or between You and your spouse or life-partner.


In respect of the Firearm Liability Cover, this Policy further excludes any loss or damage caused by:

• The use of the firearm whilst under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
• Any deliberate/intentional unlawful use of a firearm.
• The playful use of a firearm.
• The use of Your firearm by a person other than Yourself or Your beneficiaries.
• Any loss or damage caused in respect of the killing or injuring of an animal, by you, other than the animal that you contracted to hunt on a hunting trip.
• Use of a firearm whilst You act as a security officer or providing protection, of whatever nature, on an ad hoc basis to persons or property, whether remunerated for it or not, excluding the patrolling of your own neighbourhood.
• Events, proceedings or circumstances, which forms the basis of a claim, which had commenced or occurred or where the cause or grounds of action in respect of those events or circumstances arose before the inception of the Policy or within the 3-month Waiting Period.

[Branden88]

I personally do not think R300k is adequate cover.
We had a minor dog bite incident a few years ago, and the claim paid out on our behalf by Outsurance was just under R280k

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

But again, does Outsurance or any other Insurer offer a specific policy that would cover you for the following that you know of ?

Criminal Prosecution/Defence relating to:
• Murder.
• Attempted murder.
• Culpable Homicide.
• Assault.
• Assault with the intention to cause grievous bodily harm.
• Hunting related prosecutions.
• Injury/loss/damage to persons or property resulting from the use of a firearm.
• Shooting accidents on hunting trips, sport shooting events, or firearm training sessions.
• Bail applications.
• Bail payments up to R3,000.
• Appeals in respect of all firearm-related prosecutions.

Full disclosure here, I've been with Firearms Guardian now for almost a year, yes I agree the monthly premium is high, and as you say maybe R300K isn't enough etc, but what other policies are there for this very specific cover for the average Joe, that cannot have ten different policies in place to cover everything.

[Branden88]

GOSA + Personal Liability on "Multiplex" type insurance is what I have. Really hope never need any of it.

As I've mentioned, full disclosure I've been with Firearms Guardian for almost a year.

I've Googled and looked at the SANTAM MULTIPLEX, I couldn't find much to be honest but this stood out for me,

Personal liability

Our liability cover extends to worldwide cover.
Personal, domestic employee, tenant's and security firm liability cover for up to R3 000 000.
Up to R50 000 cover for unlawful arrest.
For R10 or R15 more, you get extended personal legal liability cover (PLIP) to the value of R10 million or R20 million respectively.

Legal Access

To provide you, your spouse and children with a comprehensive legal product, Santam offers Legal Access.
This product provides: a choice between R30 000, R60 000 or R100 000 cover;
cover for everything from civil legal action, family matters and labour disputes to defence against a criminal charge, and free legal advice on everyday events.

How I understand it, is you're only covered for R50K for an unlawful arrest, and then you again are only covered for R100K in matters like murder (Self Defence shooting) as I understand it.

Again, I would greatly appreciate it if you can share more of an insight to this, as I'm looking for this specific cover for a "self-defense" incident / cover.

Again, for the average Joe that doesn't have millions or earns R50K plus per month etc and needs to take out 10 different policies to cover a specific need.