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  1. #11
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    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    Why not rather just get an AR in .223 and invest in one of those .22 conversion tubes if you're interested in shooting .22? Best(ish) of both worlds. I do not know how reliable those converters are though.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    Quote Originally Posted by Ds J View Post
    Those two have fairly different applications.

    The .22 is a toy for grownups, to teach children etc.

    The Saiga is a serious beast and the way to go if you are intent on sport shooting.

    Have you tried them yet, or do you have experience with them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    I could not disagree more. I can’t recall ever seeing one at an IPSC match, not to mention anything other than an AR being anywhere near the top half of the field.
    Agree with Wesley.
    While a 223 AK is cool, it will never beat an AR in terms of ergonomics for sport shooting.

  3. #13

    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    The AK safety is not as quick and nor is the mag release. The only reason we mistakenly think they can not be shot damm fast is that 223 AK's are seldom seen and hence few know how effective the current muzzle brake is. The hobby grade AR's (not all) show wear a lot sooner.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    Quote Originally Posted by FNBROWNING View Post
    The AK safety is not as quick and nor is the mag release. The only reason we mistakenly think they can not be shot damm fast is that 223 AK's are seldom seen and hence few know how effective the current muzzle brake is. The hobby grade AR's (not all) show wear a lot sooner.

    Does sport, I.e. ispc, 3 gun... not include empty chamber starts, safety on starts, mag changes?

    All things you are loosing time on compared with an AR15 platform, even if you are proficient you still not going to he as fast.

    Also, AR15's have incredibly efficient brakes available for use. I would argue as efficient as the AK74 style ones that come on the Saigas.

    When you say hobby grade, and wear what exactly do you mean? Cause I've been around many cheap AR15's and I have only seen irregular wear patterns in one brand, otherwise the "hobby grade" guns I've had hands on have all functioned ok.

    I would also like to point out from a purely sport perspective it is much easier and cheaper to tune an AR15 to shoot softer using aftermarket parts.

  5. #15

    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    Broken bolt, cam pin, badly bent firing pin retaining pins. Broken triggers, very badly worn buffer tubes. The spring wears divots in the internal tube. Very expensive school fees.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    I could not disagree more. I can’t recall ever seeing one at an IPSC match, not to mention anything other than an AR being anywhere near the top half of the field.
    Wesley, you are correct. AR is probably better for IPSC than the AK platform.

    My comment was restricted to the OP's statement that he wishes to get into sport shooting. In that regard, the Saiga 223 is a better bet than the S&W .22.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    Quote Originally Posted by Ds J View Post
    Wesley, you are correct. AR is probably better for IPSC than the AK platform.

    My comment was restricted to the OP's statement that he wishes to get into sport shooting. In that regard, the Saiga 223 is a better bet than the S&W .22.
    Application dependent, it may be better than a .22SLR. But, it is most certainly not the way to go for sport shooting if AR15’s are available.

    While I don’t have experience with all brands, most AR Parts will outlast the barrel. The upside is of course that if parts do break, you can just about kick them out under every third bush.

    The biggest advantage that AR’s have over the AK variants is the tunability of the gas system. You can harmonize the moving parts to function optimally. After that, the trigger.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    Quote Originally Posted by FNBROWNING View Post
    Broken bolt, cam pin, badly bent firing pin retaining pins. Broken triggers, very badly worn buffer tubes. The spring wears divots in the internal tube. Very expensive school fees.
    To me that sounds like an out of spec gun and / or parts, depending on round count.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: SAIGA. 223 MK-VER-03 VS smith and wesson m&p 15-22

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    Application dependent, it may be better than a .22SLR. But, it is most certainly not the way to go for sport shooting if AR15’s are available.

    While I don’t have experience with all brands, most AR Parts will outlast the barrel. The upside is of course that if parts do break, you can just about kick them out under every third bush.

    The biggest advantage that AR’s have over the AK variants is the tunability of the gas system. You can harmonize the moving parts to function optimally. After that, the trigger.
    I agree regarding the barrel, but that is also generally true for an AK.

    I'm not saying the AK platform isn't capable of being a very decent sport shooting platform, all i'm saying that if you factor in more than purchase cost. The AR would be the cheaper and easier gun to be "competition" ready.

    Or alternatively rock the Saiga as is, and have fun because it's the gun you wanted.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevin View Post
    To me that sounds like an out of spec gun and / or parts, depending on round count.
    Several guns. That's the problem with hobby guns. Most don't shoot them enough. You will never get it with a Saiga or a Colt AR.

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