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Thread: UKRAINE updates

  1. #1461
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    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    Ok but true or false, honest question because I don’t know, many people are questioning the EU membership since Ukraine itself, long before the invasion, the country is deeply corrupt.
    I don't follow what is the question is? Is it, "Is there a lot of corruption in Ukraine?" or is it "Should they be able to join the EU if they have a lot of corruption?" or something else?

  2. #1462

    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates View Post
    You can call it whatever you like :D

    I am flabbergasted at the negativity about the EU, from people who don't know how long they will still have electricity or anything resembling rule of law?

    There is an economic and social prosperity here that I dare say is not found in many other places on this earth. The grass is greenest there where you water it, and for all the fuckery in Brussels, there is a lot of green grass to be had in the Union.
    I agree completely. Having been born and raised in a working class district in the industrial North of England I have a better sense of what motivated Brexit than most. It was almost entirely about sovereignty, wanting to retain governance by a parliament elected in the UK however imperfect, not by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. It had little to do with economics or the standards of living or liberty in the EU and I doubt that many Brexiteers would say otherwise.

    Note that I said England. Scotland is something else. Until quite recently Scotland was dominated by the Labour Party. Then the shift to the SNP happened almost overnight. Not sure why - might have been the independence issue but I don't know. What matters is that a majority of Scots is determinedly left wing, and the SNP is significantly further left than the Labour Party. In my opinion the 2014 referendum rejected independence (but only narrowly) because enough Scots lacked the balls to leap into the unknown. Then they got a shock when two years later the British referendum voted to leave the EU. For that reason I reckon that the next referendum will vote to leave the UK. As a believer in the right of free choice I take the view that they have every right. Just as a side comment, the Scots, especially the SNP have made much of their objection to being governed from Westminster by a party they have never elected. I accept that completely, but they don't mention that their votes have put the Labour Party in power for roughly 50% of the time since WW2. The Labour Party would never have been elected without the Scottish vote, and never will be again without them. The English therefore have every reason to want them gone I should think, and I'm surprised that Boris Johnson wants to deny them their referendum.

  3. #1463
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    Default UKRAINE updates

    Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
    The Donbas voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
    Ukraine didn’t respect and accept those democratic outcomes.
    Ukraine, instead, sent its war machine out to register its displeasure.
    Now Ukraine is getting its ass kicked by the Russians.

    Could the same course of events play out in the “United” Kingdom between England and Scotland? History is informative.

  4. #1464

    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dammitgriff View Post
    Could the same course of events play out in the “United” Kingdom?
    I can't imagine the UK forcibly keeping Scotland captive. If it does it may lose credibility after it's support of Ukraine. But it could be argued that retaining the "integrity" of one's territory is not the same as invading someone else's, and those countries that have tried to prevent secession by force seem not to have suffered too much consequence. I really have no idea, but I think we'll soon find out.

  5. #1465

    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Go on Scotties give the poms the brown eye.

  6. #1466

    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dammitgriff View Post
    Could the same course of events play out in the “United” Kingdom between England and Scotland? History is informative.
    The UK is a mess, as are many other places, politics have become very polarised and people have lost that ability to accept the grey area of adaptability where progress is made. This area has been left desolate as people flock to knee jerk outrage politics fueled by ignorance, the inability to trust, the ability to think, and ignorance. Politicians sing the tune that these rage mobs want to hear.

  7. #1467
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    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dammitgriff View Post
    Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
    The Donbas voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
    Ukraine didn’t respect and accept those democratic outcomes.
    Ukraine, instead, sent its war machine out to register its displeasure.
    Now Ukraine is getting its ass kicked by the Russians.

    Could the same course of events play out in the “United” Kingdom between England and Scotland? History is informative.
    In which of your farcical examples was the vote preceded by an invasion? Do you really anticipate England launching a 'special military operation against Scotland? Not holding breath for answer.

  8. #1468

    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dammitgriff View Post
    Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
    The Donbas voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
    Ukraine didn’t respect and accept those democratic outcomes.
    Ukraine, instead, sent its war machine out to register its displeasure.
    Now Ukraine is getting its ass kicked by the Russians.

    Could the same course of events play out in the “United” Kingdom between England and Scotland? History is informative.
    I’m not sure you really believe this, I think you are just trolling us as part of Russian disinformation. These so called democratic votes were preceded by Russian invasions, which then managed the elections. Kind of the opposite of any democratic process.


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  9. #1469
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    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by tcbc View Post
    I’m not sure you really believe this, I think you are just trolling us as part of Russian disinformation. These so called democratic votes were preceded by Russian invasions, which then managed the elections. Kind of the opposite of any democratic process.
    I think you've nailed it re the trolling and find it hard to believe that he really buys most of the twaddle he peddles. Would like to believe that the people who run Russia's externally facing propaganda efforts would be too discerning to pay for material of this quality. Then again I suppose we are just an insignificant shithole on the southern tip of Africa and their budgets must be pretty tight.

  10. #1470
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    Default Re: UKRAINE updates

    Quote Originally Posted by oafpatroll View Post
    I think you've nailed it re the trolling and find it hard to believe that he really buys most of the twaddle he peddles. Would like to believe that the people who run Russia's externally facing propaganda efforts would be too discerning to pay for material of this quality. Then again I suppose we are just an insignificant shithole on the southern tip of Africa and their budgets must be pretty tight.
    Is Putin’s War Legal?
    https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/2...ins-war-legal/

    Sanctions on Russia Violate the Constitution
    https://www.judgenap.com/sanctions-o...-constitution/

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