UKRAINE updates

**Johann du Toit** · 27-05-2022, 20:29

Originally Posted by FrancoisOK

Ukraine will not win this war ...

Russia already abandoned attempts to take Kyiv, they are going to struggle to resupply with sanctions, while Ukraine is expecting new equipment soon from the west. It can still go either way, but the longer it drags out the less chances of a Russian victory. Still a stalemate is the likeliest outcome.

**Johann du Toit** · 28-05-2022, 12:37

The leaders of the Ukrainian Orthodox Churches have voted to sever all relations with the Russian Orthodox Church over it's Patriarch Kirill's support for the invasion.
https://www.rferl.org/a/orthodox-chu.../31872141.html

Something tells me that after this war is done, there will be no place for the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine. And they can thank Putin and Kirill for that.

**dammitgriff** · 29-05-2022, 06:51

Paul Craig Roberts: “The powers that rule us have recognized that Washington is unprepared and unfit for a wider war and have ordered the NYT to bring the situation under control.

The source of conflict in the world is not found in Russia, China, and Iran. The source of conflict is, as I have reported for years, the neoconservative ideology of Washington’s hegemony over the world. The doctrine, as penned by the neoconservatives themselves, states:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

Putin told the neoconservatives in 2007 at the Munich Security Conference that he accepted no such limits on Russian sovereignty. China and Iran have also rejected Washington’s hegemony. It is the neoconservatives’ unwillingness to accept a multi-polar world that is the cause of conflict. If the neoconservatives are not dethroned, they will bring about nuclear Armageddon.”
Full article: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/202...y-over-russia/

**Johann du Toit** · 29-05-2022, 16:43

Originally Posted by dammitgriff

Paul Craig Roberts: “The powers that rule us have recognized that Washington is unprepared and unfit for a wider war and have ordered the NYT to bring the situation under control.

The source of conflict in the world is not found in Russia, China, and Iran. The source of conflict is, as I have reported for years, the neoconservative ideology of Washington’s hegemony over the world. The doctrine, as penned by the neoconservatives themselves, states:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

Putin told the neoconservatives in 2007 at the Munich Security Conference that he accepted no such limits on Russian sovereignty. China and Iran have also rejected Washington’s hegemony. It is the neoconservatives’ unwillingness to accept a multi-polar world that is the cause of conflict. If the neoconservatives are not dethroned, they will bring about nuclear Armageddon.”
Full article: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/202...y-over-russia/

Paul Craig Roberts is an conspiracy theorist and anti-Semite, and by his Putin worship clearly also a hardcore oikophobe who hates America and the West. He denies the Holocaust, believes 9/11 was an inside job and that Israel both created ISIL and staged the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack in Paris a couple of years ago.
https://www.adl.org/resources/news/r...rael-activists
https://web.archive.org/web/20181203...es-a-charlie-h

Ironically he also considers America to be a police state while ignoring that is exactly the type of regime Putin has erected in Russia.

For the above reasons, I think Robert's views on this subject (or any subject, for that matter) are questionable and should be treated with suspicion. He is also a prime example of of the fact that many (not all) of the people coming out on Russia's side in this war are oikophobes who hate America and the West, yet blindly worship Putin and his authoritarian regime.

**oafpatroll** · 29-05-2022, 18:52

The hysterically emotive language is also a bit of a tell.

**SoldierMan** · 29-05-2022, 19:30

Funny how the conspiracy theorists are turning out to be have been right more and more though isn't it.

Don't agree with everything PCR says though; for instance China and Russia do pose one of the greatest threats to the world, along with the US.

China has been playing nice (well as nice as they can without being sanctioned like Russia), but they are at their heart hardcore communists who venerate Mao, someone who committed democide on millions of Chinese civilians. They are just waiting for their moment.

**dammitgriff** · 30-05-2022, 01:44

“Just prior to these latest remarks, on Friday night, the Ukrainian leader vowed he would resist any territorial concessions for the sake of a negotiated peace - as a small handful of Western officials have called for - instead saying that Donbas will be "Ukrainian again".

"We are protecting our land in the way that our current defense resources allow," he had said according to a presidential office transcript. "We are doing everything to increase them. And we will increase them." However, all of this appears to be preparing the public and his Western backers to brace for bad news in the days and weeks ahead. As we noted Friday, even The Washington Post has changed its narrative, suggesting for the first time that things are looking worse for Ukraine's military than previously thought.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/z...sian-onslaught

**oafpatroll** · 30-05-2022, 08:05

How many of the party's advocating for Ukraine to give up more of its territory in the interests of peace would be ready to do the same if presented with a similar scenario. My gut says few to none. It's easy to advise the man with his arm stuck in the harvester to cut it off for the benefit of everyone else but much harder to do it yourself.

**Messor** · 30-05-2022, 08:17

Originally Posted by oafpatroll

How many of the party's advocating for Ukraine to give up more of its territory in the interests of peace would be ready to do the same if presented with a similar scenario. My gut says few to none. It's easy to advise the man with his arm stuck in the harvester to cut it off for the benefit of everyone else but much harder to do it yourself.

Think about it.

The anc will eventually steal all the land, all the money, and all the rights, and nobody will take up arms against them, not those here advocating to fight till the end, nor those opting for them to give up land.

**FrancoisOK** · 30-05-2022, 09:56

Originally Posted by oafpatroll

How many of the party's advocating for Ukraine to give up more of its territory in the interests of peace would be ready to do the same if presented with a similar scenario. My gut says few to none. It's easy to advise the man with his arm stuck in the harvester to cut it off for the benefit of everyone else but much harder to do it yourself.

We gave up a whole country in the interest of peace...or so we where lead to believe, and nobody lifted a finger to fight. It was either that or a bloodbath...so we were told. I don't see the difference in this case.

I understand the sentiment of fight to the end, but eventually it will only lead to more lives lost, and the outcome will still be the same.