Rooikat: Engine

**Tango Sierra** · 25-02-2022, 06:32

Which company / country was it sourced from? A V10 diesel, particularly for that era is unusual - I don't think Mercedes Benz made V10s at that stage - would be Magirus Deutz by a possibility perhaps?

**Davidc** · 25-02-2022, 06:35

Originally Posted by Tango Sierra

Which company / country was it sourced from? A V10 diesel, particularly for that era is unusual - I don't think Mercedes Benz made V10s at that stage - would be Magirus Deutz by a possibility perhaps?

Probably, all the Samil had Deutz engines if memory serves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**MariusT** · 25-02-2022, 06:45

It has an ADE v10 engine, probably the 443. It is watercooled whereas the Magirus engines used in the Samils are air cooled.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldw...ca/rooikat.php

**Tango Sierra** · 25-02-2022, 06:55

Originally Posted by MariusT

It has an ADE v10 engine, probably the 443. It is watercooled whereas the Magirus engines used in the Samils are air cooled.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldw...ca/rooikat.php

Whilst I understand ADE build (built?) engines, my understanding is that they produced copies of established platforms, they didn't design them?

**gary-t** · 25-02-2022, 12:28

Originally Posted by Tango Sierra

Whilst I understand ADE build (built?) engines, my understanding is that they produced copies of established platforms, they didn't design them?

They built mercedes engines for SA military from 1979 - 1994.
https://ade-engines.co.za/about/

**A-R** · 25-02-2022, 22:14

Originally Posted by MariusT

Yes, the ADE engines are/were copies of Mercedes Benz engines. MB had V- configurations up to V12.

https://mymotorlist.com/engines/mercedes/om443/

Originally Posted by Adoons

ADE (Atlantis Diesel Engines) where copies of the Perkins line of engines. ADE is not existing post 1994 anymore.

Most parts between Perkins and ADE are interchangeable. We still have a lot of old model Agricultural Tractors (Ford, Mazzey Ferguson, John Deere) that have ADE engines in them. A lot of old Mercedes Benz trucks also had ADE engines. The drivetrains where designed around the Perkins Engines. During sanctions certain engines were not allowed into RSA, so the Perkins engines where copied and then just replaced the Perkins engines in said vehicles.

ADE built licensed copies of both MB and Perkins engines. The MB-copy engines, both OM 300- and OM 400-series were used in all trucks and the Perkins engines were mostly used in tractors. There were a few exceptions, like the ADE 236 (Perkins) used in the Toyota Landcruiser and possibly some Landrovers.

I suspect the more popular engines were assembled locally, from parts sourced from various sources, including MB in Germany. The slower-moving models were fully imported and rebadged.

Originally Posted by MariusT

I think it was already developed as a power pack for the Olifant tank but I could be wrong. The largest of the ADE engines was a V12 and was used in the tank transporters as far as I know.

AFAIK the Olifant used a Continental air-cooled V12 engine. Can anyone confirm?

Originally Posted by oafpatroll

Had no idea Deutz came in watercooled. That thing must have had a bucket load of torque to go with its 386KW.

With Deutz, LIQUID cooled does not necessarily mean WATER cooled. Their current mainstay is a range of oil-cooled diesel engines. The air-cooled engines were running foul of tightening pollution and noise regulations, so they had to develop replacement with the same efficiency advantages as the old air-cooled Diesels. One of their ways to get better fuel efficiency on a Diesel is to run the combustion chambers (hence cylinder heads) at a higher temperature than what is possible with a water-cooled system. With air-cooling this was simple, but those engines were smokey and noisy. The liquid jacket around the combustion chambers helped to keep the noises in, so they could meet modern standards. The older air-cooled engines are still being manufactured by Kilosklar in India and possibly others.

The Samil 20 mk1 used a Deutz F6L913 (straight-6) engine. Mk 2 was changed to ADE 352 (MB derived).
The Samil 50 mk1 used a Deutz F6L413 (V-6) engine. Mk3 used an ADE 409 (straight-5) engine. ADE 409 was upgraded to 429, then 449.
The Samil 100 used a Deutz F8L413 (V-8) engine. I never saw one with an ADE engine, but that's not impossible.

Deutz air-cooled engines have a simple system in the nomenclature.
F6L913 is a 6-cylinder version of the 913 series (about 1 liter per cylinder).
The 413 series displaces about 1.5 liter per cylinder. A "B" prefix would denote "turbo charged.

ADE/MB numbers are different. In the 400-series,
401 was a V6. (Discontinued early due to mechanical issues.)
402; 422; 442 was a V8. The 442TI (Turbo charged, Intercooled developed 380 HP.)
403; 423; 443 was a V10.
404, 424, 444 was a V12.
Never seen a 405 or 406, but they must have been V16 and V20, possibly intended for industrial and marine applications.
407; 447 was a straight-6 engine. (The 447T developed 280 HP.)
409; 449 was a straight-5 engine and replaced the 401. It produced the same power with less fuel.

The ADE617 was also used in small trucks. This was the OM617 5-cylinder engine from the Merc 300D car.

The 300-series was used in medium trucks.
ADE314; 364 was a 4-cylinder with about 3.8 liter displacement. (3 and 4T trucks.)
ADE352; 366 was a 6-cylinder with about 5.8 liter displacement. T and TI versions were made. (5-8T trucks.)

I am not very familiar with the Perkins-derived ADE engines, but generally they just used the original Perkins numbers with an ADE prefix. Mostly, the number denoted the displacement in cubic inches. So an ADE236 would be a 236 cubic inch 4-cylinder. ADE354 was a 6-cylinder, etc.

For some years, all (civilian) trucks and tractors were required by law to be fitted with ADE engines. In some cases, the vehicles were imported, stripped and converted, then the original engines were exported again. (Or were they dumped in the sea?)

Hope this is not too confusing?

**Paul** · 28-02-2022, 10:01

Originally Posted by A-R

ADE built licensed copies of both MB and Perkins engines. The MB-copy engines, both OM 300- and OM 400-series were used in all trucks and the Perkins engines were mostly used in tractors. There were a few exceptions, like the ADE 236 (Perkins) used in the Toyota Landcruiser and possibly some Landrovers.

I'm not aware of any ADE 236 engines put into Landcruisers, but they were used for the (quite rare) Land-Rover Series 3S Diesels. The Series 3S was better known by the Petrol engine variant's name (a stretched Austin Marina engine) the R6.

Toyota would not have needed the Perkins as they got the engine design Land-Rover was too dim to pick up, the old Chev 4.1... which they still use to this day.

The rest of your post is fascinating and stuff I have no knowledge of whatsoever.

**MariusT** · 25-02-2022, 06:58

Yes, the ADE engines are/were copies of Mercedes Benz engines. MB had V- configurations up to V12.

https://mymotorlist.com/engines/mercedes/om443/

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

**Tango Sierra** · 25-02-2022, 09:21

Originally Posted by MariusT

Yes, the ADE engines are/were copies of Mercedes Benz engines. MB had V- configurations up to V12.

https://mymotorlist.com/engines/mercedes/om443/

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Cheers Marius, I should have been more observant ref "443". Interesting, I'm assuming that the V10 was chosen as it was the most powerful engine that could be accommodated / mated to the transmission?

**MariusT** · 25-02-2022, 09:55

Originally Posted by Tango Sierra

Cheers Marius, I should have been more observant ref "443". Interesting, I'm assuming that the V10 was chosen as it was the most powerful engine that could be accommodated / mated to the transmission?

I think it was already developed as a power pack for the Olifant tank but I could be wrong. The largest of the ADE engines was a V12 and was used in the tank transporters as far as I know.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk