Conspiracy theories, spontaneous order, and the hermeneutics of suspicion

[MSW2]

There's no doubt that some very terrible things go on in the world.
But not everything is a conspiracy. Things like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study and The Aversion Project are two examples of horrific things government knowingly and willingly did to their own citizens.
The above things are real life.

Conspiracy theories about vaccines and 5G and microchiping humans and whatever else is doing nothing more than creating misinformation, whether the intention is malicious or just ignorance. The least knowledgble on the subject generally shout the loudest and cannot be swayed, even in the face of evidence, because of lack of knowledge on the subject.

I remember a work colleague lost her dog and being really upset that the dog didn't have a name tag on his collar. I asked her if she maybe had a dog microchip. The awnser she gave me was that the dominee / minister gave a sermon on how microchips are evil because they use your blood to work and that it's unholy and will cause all sorts of evil to happen. So based on that, they refused to chip the dog.

The fact that someone she held in high regard, told her this nonsense, she believed it 100%
The dominee was in no way shape or form knowledgeable on how they work, but his sermon convinced at least one person. That's the danger of a conspiracy theory.

Just for FYI, microchips or even access tags for buildings, work on induction. The same way your car key tronsponder works on your cars ignition.

The chip example you used is just someone being utterly stupid/ignorant (I happen to know my way around RFID pretty well) and pulling other people that are willing down to his level. And unfortunately there is a lot of that going around. And that blurs the lines somewhat. You have to look very carefully whether you are dealing with real or stupid.
That being said, I am pretty sure Ds J is more on the real side of the spectrum than the stupid.

[curious george]

[QUOTE=zguy;1455406

Conspiracy theories about vaccines and 5G and microchiping humans and whatever else is doing nothing more than creating misinformation, whether the intention is malicious or just ignorance. The least knowledgble on the subject generally shout the loudest and cannot be swayed, even in the face of evidence, because of lack of knowledge on the subject.

.[/QUOTE]

Seems you also don't understand the "conspiracy" either?

[Andrew Leigh]

And when the accepted "science" turns out to be not so factually correct, then what? You know, like 95% efficacy of jabs the likes of slr,etc tried to sell us on?

I did qualify my position by stating that astronomers of old were proven right, but proven right with science.

Then are the guys who questioned it everything you described, isn't that a bigoted and narrow minded?

Not at all, however questions should be raised based on valid facts and not on internet hearsay. Let the facts determine the truth and not the court of internet opinion.

I get why one would want to lump all the weirdo lizard stuff,etc with all the easily verified stuff to try diminish and trivialize it because it doesn't correspond with your world view?

It is the CT's that do this in an attempt to support their case. I have only heard of the weirdo lizard stuff from CT's.

Sure there is a lot of absolute trash thrown around, especially all the Q shit and the 5G whatever,etc but do you want to proclaim that everything the WEF wants to achieve( as stated on their very public website) is rubbish? The world elites take them very seriously,perhaps so should you? The people who make all the decisions that impact your lives on a daily basis, they determine how we get to interact with each other,etc take them very very seriously. Remember when your esteemed societal elite go to Davos every single year to tick of their checklists,drink a cup of tea or is it a progress report?

So then the CT's must decide what their mantra / gospel is. Again never heard of 5G and Q from anyone other than CT's. Are you claiming then to be a a special breed of CT with much more defined views? Is the CT community divided on what they believe? How can we believe if the CT's cannot agree on their gospel. Told my boet once that Conspiracy Theories are like church, they have the same basic thread running thought them (revelations and the mark of the beast) and have people are absolutely devoted to the cause but there are branches much like denominations in church with many being on the lunatic fringes.

Call me a "small vociferous minority" then.

Be who you want to be but keep it real. I think no less of people with opinions different to mine. Like my wife once said to me "Have you ever considered that you could be wrong" I had not and I was. We have had way too many people believe in theories and have the charisma to get people to follow them to destruction. Being remunerated on the internet for spouting garbage also does not help.

If you're on the Ukraine thread to watch war porn then maybe you have to chat to KevinF about you getting off on the suffering and death of others, because anything resembling "updates" you won't be getting from there at all, considering that it's all unadulterated propaganda(if you can't tell the difference) from mostly one side at this stage.

What on earth has this to do with the topic?

If you're on the covid thread and not interested in the latest developments because you're jabbed already and don't want to hear how you may have been fleeced or not, then that's your problem. In reality,the so called "science" seems far from settled inconclusively one way or the other and won't be for quite a while, but you've resigned yourself to your premature choice? Many,in fact, the majority haven't taken that step as yet and may or may not find the new info useful. It's not settled because you believe it to be so.

Just as some have the right to get jabbed others have the right not to, no problems here. CT's do not afford you the right to get vaccinated, our family WhatApp group was thrown into turmoil due to the anti-vaxxers hijacking every post with their opinions. So the science is "far from settled" but those jabbed "may have been fleeced"? So here lays my problem with the CT's. Science is not settled but the opinion definitely is as those vaccinated have been fleeced. You choice of words betray you, you could have said "may not have been fleeced".

I have not had one person I know pass from Covid post vaccination. I have had 7 unvaccinated friends / close acquaintances pass from Covid. Hardly a world wide stat but certainly a stat that I can trust as it is first hand.

I am vaccinated as is my wife. We both are in the high risk group, both from an age and a medical perspective, this is what motivated our choice, a calculated risk. We have unwittingly had Covid positive people in our home on at least four occasions, we do not wear masks at home obviously, and don't require that visitors do either. We have not contracted Covid. So based on the facts available to me vax worked for us, no opinion here. The odd thing was that when I told my boet that I was vaccinated he categorically told me I would be dead in 24 months so lethal was the vax and the microchip contained therein, I have 16 months to go, should I be getting my affairs in order?

You can believe what you want, but just don't claim opinion as fact that's where I have a problem. Tell me it is your opinion. Remember they are called conspiracy theories not conspiracy facts.

[oafpatroll]

'Belief' is the root of the problem. If you start from a position of believing something and go looking for evidence to support your belief you will always 'prove' yourself right. You also make yourself susceptible to manipulation by people that don't even need to be very good at it.

The belief makes you act like a zealot and only other zealots wont think that's what you are. If you insist on not knowing what you don't know you've fallen into the trap.

The strongest believers usually think they are skeptics and independent thinkers when nothing could be further from the truth.

Doesn't matter whether you believe in what CNN peddles or microchip vaccines made from foetuses.

[Johann du Toit]

'Belief' is the root of the problem. If you start from a position of believing something and go looking for evidence to support your belief you will always 'prove' yourself right. You also make yourself susceptible to manipulation by people that don't even need to be very good at it.

The belief makes you act like a zealot and only other zealots wont think that's what you are. If you insist on not knowing what you don't know you've fallen into the trap.

The strongest believers usually think they are skeptics and independent thinkers when nothing could be further from the truth.

Doesn't matter whether you believe in what CNN peddles or microchip vaccines made from foetuses.

Well put. A lot of conspiracy theories resemble the Gnostic heresy, in terms of which objective, verifiable reality is rejected in favor of a "hidden knowledge", even if said "knowledge" is pure bullshit not based on fact or logic. QAnon being the worst example of this, although by no means the only one. In fact, the adherents of such quasi-religious conspiracy theories often forego the need to present proof of their heres.. errr theories, entirely, and instead make it an object of faith. You MUST believe Putin is a modern day "Christian Crusader" sent to "liberate" Ukraine from the decadent West. You MUST believe that 9/11 was an inside job. You MUST believe all White people are racists, that all of Western society is inherently designed to discriminate against all "people of color" and said "structures" should therefore be torn down. There are other, even more egregious examples.

If you don't, it's not due to the lack of any evidence by the tinfoil hats or the com, but due to your lack of "faith".

[A-R]

If I were to be part of a conspiracy to gain control over (or defraud them out of) people's lives, money, property or whatever, and some of those were to find out and publicly voice their suspicions, I would just call them mad conspiracy theory tinfoil hat nuts. That should shut them up for good. No actual proof needed, just the suggestion that they are idiots will suffice...

Disclaimer: I can not claim any IP rights on the above statement.

[curious george]

I have not had one person I know pass from Covid post vaccination. I have had 7 unvaccinated friends / close acquaintances pass from Covid. Hardly a world wide stat but certainly a stat that I can trust as it is first hand.

.

Sorry to hear about your loss, but whilst I can't use myself as a stat either, I haven't lost anyone to covid, have personally ever previously met 2 people who have allegedly passed from,or is it with covid? No one really knows since no portmortems were ever held. My client is a medical facility/clinic with many compromised patients who would tick all the high risk groups, they only lost 4 or 5 patients the last 2 yrs, none to the pestilence, and it's a pretty average attrition rate.

Anyway,it is what it is.

Nobody want to answer my questions regarding the WEF and our govt's love affair with their policies?

[Johann du Toit]

I'm not vaccinated, I had Covid, and I'm still alive, without any lingering side effects I am aware of. Felt like severe Flu at first, but calmed down after five days (and intense medication, lots of liquid etc).

What that means -proof of absence of proof of the effectiveness of vaccines, proof that my health is acceptable or whether I was just damn lucky- I cannot say.