Red dots and all

[oafpatroll]

My analogy was just as silly as your example of not using front sight focus to aim a red dot. Front sight focus is not a "fundamental" Sight picture is the fundamental. Sight picture with a red dot and sight picture with iron sights are different things. You cannot compare them directly like that. If you could that would mean that I can say something silly like shooting irons sights are bad because they don't teach you the fundamentals of shooting a red dot optic which is the exact reverse of what you are saying.

I think you've missed my point completely and read in a whole lot I didn't put there. I didn't suggest that learning how to use irons would teach you anything about using a dot. Quite the opposite. The two sighting systems are different and need to be learned for what they are if you wish to gain proficiency with them. Learning how to use irons is learning how to use irons. Not learning to use irons is not learning to use irons. Not learning to use irons means you wont have the fundamental skills required to use irons if you need to. Ergo learning a dot.

[oafpatroll]

There are things much more difficult to learn in shooting a handgun well. Sights are the least of the difficulties imo.

Learning not to move the gun when breaking a shot when you have a sight picture is the bane of many a shooter and having a RDS or Irons on the gun is not going to make a difference in the basics of shooting well.

No argument with the relative importance/difficulty of the elements of handgun shooting skills. My point is simply that you won't learn how to use irons by learning how to use a dot. That's fine if you'll never need to. Less so if you might.

[M80BHP]

Guys often ask me to shoot my gun with the dot on and my favorite thing to do is ask them to try hold the dot still on a far target....everybody is surprised at how a small movement can take the dot off the target....I then let them dry fire or even just move their fingers in the trigger guard and most people move the dot low left...The dot definitely helps me for dry fire training �� I am not a naturally good shooter so I have to train at least once a week...if I skip a few training sessions it reflects in my score at the next match..

[Cbotha15]

Guys often ask me to shoot my gun with the dot on and my favorite thing to do is ask them to try hold the dot still on a far target....everybody is surprised at how a small movement can take the dot off the target....I then let them dry fire or even just move their fingers in the trigger guard and most people move the dot low left...The dot definitely helps me for dry fire training �� I am not a naturally good shooter so I have to train at least once a week...if I skip a few training sessions it reflects in my score at the next match..

Yes it gives them more information to work with.

[Meteor]

There are things much more difficult to learn in shooting a handgun well. Sights are the least of the difficulties imo.

Learning not to move the gun when breaking a shot when you have a sight picture is the bane of many a shooter and having a RDS or Irons on the gun is not going to make a difference in the basics of shooting well.

Sooo you want the oke to learn to shoot a handgun before learning to shoot a red dot? Whos side are you on??????????

[DS]

Sooo you want the oke to learn to shoot a handgun before learning to shoot a red dot? Whos side are you on??????????

I am saying it does not matter what sight you have because is not going to influence if you can shoot poa/poi.

[Marius@Jizni]

I'm the biggest supporter of focusing on the basics first.

But the 'fundamentals', as we know them, are not the basics. The true 'basics' are trigger control and follow-through. All seven fundamentals are a lot to learn at one time.

Once they are programmed into your subconscious mind, you can easily manage all of the fundamentals and more. But while you are busy programming (practising) you have to shoot consciously, which means that you need to cycle between them. So if you can isolate one fundamental at a time to practice, you'll learn so much better.

Which is what a red dot will help doing.

[Stormchaser_ZA]

So I bought a PX4 storm on advise from a friend. It's a great firearm but I have until recently struggled with it. I was convinced that it's the sight causing all my kakka but as you it was not. I would never have bought the Storm if I knew that it is not really a good choice for sport shooting and that's where the P10F came in. I bit the bullet and bought one and shot it last weekend at waterfall. My accuracy was pretty hard to believe but I think it had to do with the basics of shooting. I thank the storm for that but there's a still a ton to learn.

With all that being said I think I am going to put a red dot on it but only once the license is approved. This way I still get the practice with iron sights. You have all been awesome with the advise! Thank you!

[Cbotha15]

So I bought a PX4 storm on advise from a friend. It's a great firearm but I have until recently struggled with it. I was convinced that it's the sight causing all my kakka but as you it was not. I would never have bought the Storm if I knew that it is not really a good choice for sport shooting and that's where the P10F came in. I bit the bullet and bought one and shot it last weekend at waterfall. My accuracy was pretty hard to believe but I think it had to do with the basics of shooting. I thank the storm for that but there's a still a ton to learn.

With all that being said I think I am going to put a red dot on it but only once the license is approved. This way I still get the practice with iron sights. You have all been awesome with the advise! Thank you!

The double action first shot on the PX4 Storm is a separate skill to master, but its not impossible. A lot of really skilled shooters use DA/SA pistols like the PX4. a Fundamentals pistol course will be a valuable investment for you to show you where you need to improve. You could also speak to Deon Storm at Hailstorm in Pretoria, maybe he can recommend some mods to the gun to make it a bit easier to shoot. The PX4 will also work for competition shooting. You can use it for that in the meantime while you wait for the P10F license.

[Stormchaser_ZA]

You can use it for that in the meantime while you wait for the P10F license.

Yip that's exactly the plan. Cheers!