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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    I'm going to offer an opposing point of view. I think if you want a red dot get it now. They won't be getting any cheaper. If you look at one of the Holosun models, they are good value, very robust and since you are getting the gun cut for the specific footprint it makes sense since the footprint is the same as other popular optics. That enables you to switch if you want to.

    A red dot is also easier to learn for a beginner than iron sights are. Its a simpler sighting system. Look at the target, place the dot over the target and squeeze the trigger without disturbing the gun. The caveat being that you need to put in the work in dryfire to get a solid presentation to find the dot quickly. If you are not willing to put in the work then you will struggle, but the same can be said for iron sights.

    In terms of sport shooting IPSC is probably the most popular practical shooting sports in the country at the moment. Within that you get production optics division which is a ever growing division withing the sport. A P10F with a optic is well suited to compete in this division.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    Holosun HS407CO + MRST.

    The sooner you do it the better! My wife added it to a plate mount for her S2 and then when she experienced the height over bore at greater distances I could finally say, I told you so and we had the slide milled. MRST does a spectacular job.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    Quote Originally Posted by Grobbie View Post
    Rather become very competent without a red dot. That is if your eyes are still good.

    If your eyes have issues you would first need to look at a red dot as some eye conditions such as astigmatism messes with the clarity of the dot, makes it look like a blurred star.

    But first get the proficiency, and then the dot. I see too many guys struggling to find the dit when drawing the firearm.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They struggle because they don't dryfire enough or at all.

  4. #14
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    Aug 2018
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    Been there done that....If I had it to do over I would have put the dot on first ( imho).....I do wear glasses due to my age so that is one reason that may not apply to a new shooter....I have moved up to B class in IPSC in PO and I'm almost sure it would not have happened if I was shooting open sights...For me the bigger the glass on the optic the better as you can keep the dot on target during recoil...I have a SRO on my competition gun and a vortex venom on my edc...

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    A bit of anecdotal evidence to explain the advantages of optics a bit more.

    This weekend we shot a club shoot at Magnum United. One stage had 2 plates at 10m, 2 paper targets at 20m and a square plate in between them also at 20m. That was some pretty challenging accuracy standards. The top 3 shooters on that stage all shot production optics and they set the standard in terms of time and score.

    Make of this what you will.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    My experience with handgun optics is limited to messing about with friends guns and I've never even shot one in a match so take this from whence it comes.

    If you learn to shoot with an optic then its reasonable to assume that you won't be much good when presented with a shooting problem without one. You'll be able to shoot but some of the fundamentals of sight picture and sight focus will be missing because you wouldn't have encountered the need for them before. By all means adopt new technologies but bear in mind that they don't obviate the value of a competence in the fundamentals.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    Quote Originally Posted by oafpatroll View Post
    My experience with handgun optics is limited to messing about with friends guns and I've never even shot one in a match so take this from whence it comes.

    If you learn to shoot with an optic then its reasonable to assume that you won't be much good when presented with a shooting problem without one. You'll be able to shoot but some of the fundamentals of sight picture and sight focus will be missing because you wouldn't have encountered the need for them before. By all means adopt new technologies but bear in mind that they don't obviate the value of a competence in the fundamentals.
    Its hardly new. Special forces and competition shooters have been using them since the 90's

  8. #18
    User Marius@Jizni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbotha15 View Post
    I'm going to offer an opposing point of view. I think if you want a red dot get it now. They won't be getting any cheaper. If you look at one of the Holosun models, they are good value, very robust and since you are getting the gun cut for the specific footprint it makes sense since the footprint is the same as other popular optics. That enables you to switch if you want to.

    A red dot is also easier to learn for a beginner than iron sights are. Its a simpler sighting system. Look at the target, place the dot over the target and squeeze the trigger without disturbing the gun. The caveat being that you need to put in the work in dryfire to get a solid presentation to find the dot quickly. If you are not willing to put in the work then you will struggle, but the same can be said for iron sights.

    In terms of sport shooting IPSC is probably the most popular practical shooting sports in the country at the moment. Within that you get production optics division which is a ever growing division withing the sport. A P10F with a optic is well suited to compete in this division.
    That's it.

    Trigger control is the key performance area on a handgun. If you think a dot will allow you to aim finer, you're in for a surprise - the dot jumps around a disconcerting amount. If you capitalise on the fact that it makes aiming simpler, and focus on trigger control, you'll learn faster. Like Christo said. But mind his caveat carefully.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbotha15 View Post
    Its hardly new. Special forces and competition shooters have been using them since the 90's
    In the 90's a red dot optic cost more than most people spent on two guns so they weren't available to the overwhelming majority of shooters. As they have become cheaper they have become accessible to more shooters in the herd. It was a very long time after the 90's that I saw a civilian shooter in SA with any sort of illuminated optic beyond an Armson on any sort of firearm. They have only fairly recently become small and 'cheap' enough to be a realistic option on a carry gun so I would say in that respect they are pretty new to the majority of people who might stick one on a handgun.

    Are you suggesting that a new shooter should learn to shoot with a red dot rather than irons?

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Red dots and all

    Quote Originally Posted by oafpatroll View Post
    In the 90's a red dot optic cost more than most people spent on two guns so they weren't available to the overwhelming majority of shooters. As they have become cheaper they have become accessible to more shooters in the herd. It was a very long time after the 90's that I saw a civilian shooter in SA with any sort of illuminated optic beyond an Armson on any sort of firearm. They have only fairly recently become small and 'cheap' enough to be a realistic option on a carry gun so I would say in that respect they are pretty new to the majority of people who might stick one on a handgun.

    Are you suggesting that a new shooter should learn to shoot with a red dot rather than irons?
    I'm saying red dots are easier to learn for new shooters. I'm not telling anyone what to do.

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