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  1. #11
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price

    What Treeman said. An Uncle accompanying us on my first hunt of my life had a rifle like that. To this day it is still in his family and used regularly as a working rifle. It is the only one I have ever seen or heard of between the people I know. Don't just take an offer of "you know, ,308 is not so popular these days and those rifles are not like an original Mauser or Rigby. And those Weaver Scopes are old technology." NO!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaaphaas View Post
    Do you expect this one would also have a 26” barrel?
    Not necessarily. even the PAAA book mentions they were made with different barrel lengths, with 25" being seemingly common (a friend has a Vrystaat Mk I with a 25" barrel).

    I do THINK that this may be one of the later ones that is essentially a single shot action that was opened up. the bolt release looks like the single shot action's. Also because it is specifically marked Lyttleton RSA. But again, I must page through the book first.

    Nostalgically, everything all the other poster said is true. the problem with rifles like these are that their value doesn't lie in how good it does its job, but with what they are and represent, namely a fully SA-developed and manufactured, high-quality pure hunting rifle.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    Not necessarily. even the PAAA book mentions they were made with different barrel lengths, with 25" being seemingly common (a friend has a Vrystaat Mk I with a 25" barrel).

    I do THINK that this may be one of the later ones that is essentially a single shot action that was opened up. the bolt release looks like the single shot action's. Also because it is specifically marked Lyttleton RSA. But again, I must page through the book first.

    Nostalgically, everything all the other poster said is true. the problem with rifles like these are that their value doesn't lie in how good it does its job, but with what they are and represent, namely a fully SA-developed and manufactured, high-quality pure hunting rifle.
    ************************
    I am way out of my depth here now, my knowledge is wide but rather shallow. So pretend we sitting around a fire in regard to my statement following!
    That is a single shot opened action, 25" barrel rifle, look at the wood, if you are old enough you will remember that grain, it was used a lot in South Africa for many things. Beachwood, nothing special, but a big part of the good old days that grain, saw it much as a child. I see it still has its iron sights - so lovely.
    There should be numbers on the wood inside the barrel outletting.
    The bolt seems to raise a ??? to me, looks different, should it not have a flat side?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    ************************
    I am way out of my depth here now, my knowledge is wide but rather shallow. So pretend we sitting around a fire in regard to my statement following!
    That is a single shot opened action, 25" barrel rifle, look at the wood, if you are old enough you will remember that grain, it was used a lot in South Africa for many things. Beachwood, nothing special, but a big part of the good old days that grain, saw it much as a child. I see it still has its iron sights - so lovely.
    There should be numbers on the wood inside the barrel outletting.
    The bolt seems to raise a ??? to me, looks different, should it not have a flat side?
    Stock is classic Vrystaat MkII style, the wood is just slightly lighter, but I don't think its Beech, just lighter Walnut. it has the darker forend tip and grip cap, identical to mine. The bolt is also classic Vrystaat / RSA.

    The serial is NOT classic Vrystaat, and neither is the bolt stop, which looks more like the single shot RSA's I've seen before. That's what made me think it's an opened up single shot. I just had to make sure but I'm quite confident its what was known as the Musgrave Model 2000. These were made in the mid 80s, using "surplus" single shot actions that had the ejection port opened up as well as the solid bottom machined open for a magazine, essentially turning the RSA single shot action (which was originally developed from the Vrystaat action) back into a Vrystaat action.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price



    Those lines, marks - Beech, Walnut has cleaner presentation and complete lines ?
    At least what I think.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price

    Rather short search came up with Wiki presenting:
    The Musgrave RSA Target Rifle[edit]

    The single-shot Musgrave RSA action (sometimes marked "Lyttelton RSA") is based on Mauser's design and feature a controlled feed (claw) extractor. The actions have a large flat bedding area underneath and a short case extraction port. The original Musgrave target rifles were fitted with 26.5" barrels and designated "7,62" (7.62×51mm NATO or .308 Winchester).
    The top part of the fitted hammer forged barrels (until c. 1975) from Lyttleton, were encased by a handguard, while M&S 1/3 MOA rear sights were installed. Parker Hale 1/4 MOA rear sights were available as an option. Stocks were made of a dense and strong beech wood.[citation needed] The handguard is absent from later models, which had significantly bulkier fore-ends to allow for an open barrel with effective cooling while still reducing potential fliers due to contact between the free floated barrel and the shooter's fingers. Accurate Musgrave-manufactured button rifled b.......................................

    Perhaps there were others made of Walnut, but thats the Beech of our childhood lotsa things.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price

    I'm no expert on wood, especially not from photos.
    just gotta make the point for clarity: this isn't an RSA rifle that was turned into a hunting rifle. it was built as you see it there, in the factory. So the (accepted) fact that RSA single shots had beech stocks is neither here nor there.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    Rather short search came up with Wiki presenting:
    The Musgrave RSA Target Rifle[edit]

    The single-shot Musgrave RSA action (sometimes marked "Lyttelton RSA") is based on Mauser's design and feature a controlled feed (claw) extractor. The actions have a large flat bedding area underneath and a short case extraction port. The original Musgrave target rifles were fitted with 26.5" barrels and designated "7,62" (7.62×51mm NATO or .308 Winchester).
    The top part of the fitted hammer forged barrels (until c. 1975) from Lyttleton, were encased by a handguard, while M&S 1/3 MOA rear sights were installed. Parker Hale 1/4 MOA rear sights were available as an option. Stocks were made of a dense and strong beech wood.[citation needed] The handguard is absent from later models, which had significantly bulkier fore-ends to allow for an open barrel with effective cooling while still reducing potential fliers due to contact between the free floated barrel and the shooter's fingers. Accurate Musgrave-manufactured button rifled b.......................................

    Perhaps there were others made of Walnut, but thats the Beech of our childhood lotsa things.
    While the stocks of RSA target rifles were certainly cut from Beech (mine is), I would expect the hunting rifles to come with Walnut stocks.

    The Musgrave rifles made in the late 80's had a huge variety of stock colours, depending on the blanks they were cut from, but all were Walnut. On the entry-level (xxxS98xxxx) models that came with uncheckered stocks and standard military triggers and safeties, the wood was often very plain with no figure, and some were half light, half dark. A few also came with very light, almost yellow, Walnut stocks.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price

    I will have to bow to consensus, as I said, bit out of my depth here. I was rather surprised when I thought "ah Beech" and then read beech when looking into it.
    I have always known walnut to be more glassy with complete lines and long show of growth rings, as where Beech had the short cross show almost specs with a bit of honeycombe if held at correct angle.
    AR, do you feel that when they opened the action and ejection port they put the modified actions into new stocks - Walnut ones?

  10. #20
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    Default Re: musgrave 7.62 x 51mm price

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    ...
    AR, do you feel that when they opened the action and ejection port they put the modified actions into new stocks - Walnut ones?
    The rifles were not modified from something else, they were all built new in the Musgrave factory.

    The way I always understood it, is that the RSA action was designed and built as a target rifle (Bisley) action. It was somewhat controversial at the time and the damn brits deemed using it to be cheating, so the RSA rifles were banned from certain matches for a while.

    The conversion to a hunting rifle action happened a while later, but was not done by someone clamping a RSA action into a milling machine and cutting away some steel, it was machined into the sporting action right from the action blank. (I am not 100% sure, but the action blanks do look like investment castings to me.)

    So no, I would say the barrelled actions were put in their respective stocks only once, after being hand-bedded using a paraffin flame.

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