Homogenous copper bullets can be inhumane-article

[Koebelwagen]

Just returned from another hunt, shot an impala and gemsbok, both around the 100M mark with my 9.3 loaded with 286gr Swift A-Frames at a very modest 2250FPS, two shots, two kills. Impala was neck shot so no real data to be gained except the exit wound was about 1.5x caliber size. That shot would have killed it even had I been using a Hornady V-Max.

The gemsbok was quartering towards me, entry on the shoulder, smashing through the shoulder joint before entering the chest cavity and exiting third rib from the rear on the far side. She went all of 20M before expiring. The tunnel through the shoulder bone and the 2x caliber size exit hole indicates full expansion, to be expected with the resistance from the bone struck.

I have been using A-Frames for about 6 years now, performance is always excellent regardless of shot angle or medium they have to travel through. If there is one criticism it would be there isn't always a lot of blood spoor to follow, possibly indicating less than optimal expansion but as far as having the best of both worlds i.e. penetration/ weight retention of a mono and fairly reliable expansion at relatively low velocity I don't think there is a better hunting bullet in the world.

Would I use mono's? Yes, I do and they work very well. Would I use conventional cup and core? Yes, I do and they work very well but the application parameters is important.

Time on the range is never wasted imo, it builds muscle memory. Being privileged to have hunted a lot also helps with shot placement but again, shelling out for some realistic animal targets for range sessions helps build confidence too. I practice from my shooting sticks, both on the range and at home, dry firing at an A4 sized animal poster pinned to a door. By no means am I a great marksman but judging by the reactions from my guides this last weekend at the fact the animals I shot were dead so quickly it is obvious there are still too many people who spend 5 rounds on a range the afternoon before they hit the road to go hunting "'just to check zero".

[Antlion]

The thing is Messor, you really actually very seldom know the range you will find your quarry at. Springbuck in the Free State may let you assume that you you are likely to be shooting longer range shots, same with Kudu up north on the dunes or flats, long shots. Springbuck, Kudu down this side are anything from 30 m to whatever distance, so a good all round bullet is needed.

What would YOU consider a good all round bullet?

Also curious as to what others have to say. Strangely enough, the classic bushveld 308 load of 180gr at 2450fps has worked well as an all round load once I learnt the trajectory further out. I have done the full circle and looks like I'm going back that route ..

[Messor]

The thing is Messor, you really actually very seldom know the range you will find your quarry at. Springbuck in the Free State may let you assume that you you are likely to be shooting longer range shots, same with Kudu up north on the dunes or flats, long shots. Springbuck, Kudu down this side are anything from 30 m to whatever distance, so a good all round bullet is needed.

What would YOU consider a good all round bullet?

Knowing the range is of little importance when talking hunting, because under field conditions all bullets should expand under HUNTING conditions.
Once you start shooting way yonder that no longer becomes hunting and you require a bullet that acts differently, hence the article.
Up to 300m you can use any bullet you like but just make sure it will open up and retain enough mass to reach and destroy the vitals.

Now, here is the humdinger, the author is trying to use the energy as best he can, nobody wants to hear it. This have always intrigued me because everybody knows this for a deity damn fact, they just ignore it when it suits them.
A bullet that opens up, aka expands means nothing, absolutely nothing on its own.
Ask just about any sane instructor in the world, be it military or private, a 9mm handgun doesn’t have any stopping power. But why, it’s shoots a nice 147gr bullet which mushrooms quite beautifully?

Energy bro, energy, every single proponent of the “the energy doesn’t matter” sure as hell would chose to be shot with a 147gr 9mm round instead of a 147gr 7mm rifle round.
Through the years I have tried to explain this many times in various different threads, but people wants to hear none of it, they just say energy don’t kill.

The author, he just wants to use the energy as best he can in HIS scenario, him knocking mono bullets was in one light uncalled for, and secondly just immediately misunderstood by others that did not take the time to listen, they just want to criticize something they don’t want to hear.

[aimpoint]

Knowing the range is of little importance when talking hunting, because under field conditions all bullets should expand under HUNTING conditions.Once you start shooting way yonder that no longer becomes hunting and you require a bullet that acts differently, hence the article.Up to 300m you can use any bullet you like but just make sure it will open up and retain enough mass to reach and destroy the vitals. Now, here is the humdinger, the author is trying to use the energy as best he can, nobody wants to hear it. This have always intrigued me because everybody knows this for a deity damn fact, they just ignore it when it suits them.A bullet that opens up, aka expands means nothing, absolutely nothing on its own.Ask just about any sane instructor in the world, be it military or private, a 9mm handgun doesn’t have any stopping power. But why, it’s shoots a nice 147gr bullet which mushrooms quite beautifully? Energy bro, energy, every single proponent of the “the energy doesn’t matter” sure as hell would chose to be shot with a 147gr 9mm round instead of a 147gr 7mm rifle round. Through the years I have tried to explain this many times in various different threads, but people wants to hear none of it, they just say energy don’t kill. The author, he just wants to use the energy as best he can in HIS scenario, him knocking mono bullets was in one light uncalled for, and secondly just immediately misunderstood by others that did not take the time to listen, they just want to criticize something they don’t want to hear.

What gives you the energy? I can only think of speed and the faster you load a bullet the stronger it has to be! Or am i understanding this all wrong?

[Messor]

What gives you the energy? I can only think of speed and the faster you load a bullet the stronger it has to be! Or am i understanding this all wrong?

Well its chemical energy converted into pressure through combustion converted into kinetic energy.
Fact remains a bullet itself does nothing, it does not kill an animal, go shoot a few antelope with a 9mm handgun and a 270 and see which one puts them down faster.
I’ve made a joke once in one of these “energy” threads saying if you don’t believe in it, next time throw the buffalo with your bullets instead of shooting them.

A bullet must be able to penetrate to the vitals and destroy them, otherwise all the energy doesn’t help one bit, that is why experienced folk like T-stone would rather prefer a mono because it’s got a predictable outcome, not “hope my bullet makes it”.

But, for the sake of clarity, the author of the article is not incorrect, that is all I was alluding to, he is just biased in his opinion. I don’t mind whom uses what bullets as long as they take the animals down reliably. The only time we as hunters can take exception with the gear of others is when they fail because of those gear choices, but for the most part we just take exception because of our own choices.

[Hearties]

Most of Nathan Foster’s writings and research are based on:
- the NZ hunting environment of thick bush and / or steep cliffs where “anchoring” shots are more important than a few more kegs of meat damage, and
- shooting at longer (I.e more than 350m) distances
In the above scenarios the preference for fast expanding, frangible bullets makes sense, particularly as he also advocates for heavy-for-calibre weights (that improve penetration while still shedding weight and providing a bigger wound channel).
Obviously, typical South African hunting conditions are very different and our game animals are typically larger. Apart from the wide-open spaces of the Karoo, N Cape and certain areas in the E Cape our shooting distances are relatively short. All of which drives our preference for tougher bullets that hold together.
Both preferences are correct for their respective applications.