Lessons learned from KZN Riots

**Gleock** · 29-06-2022, 18:19

Originally Posted by GAZZAMCK

Guys need to remember this, the only reason the civilian road blocks worked was because there was no effort to breach them
There was no effort to rampage through the suburbs

Yeah, we held an entire shopping complex.
Your assessment might be valid for your area, not everywhere.

**GAZZAMCK** · 30-06-2022, 13:05

Originally Posted by Gleock

Yeah, we held an entire shopping complex.
Your assessment might be valid for your area, not everywhere.

Yes and so did many?

My question is did you come under direct and constant attack? I doubt you myself or anyone would hold off 7 to 8 thousand "looters"
because here it was more than that

If they wanted to, they could and would have overwhelmed all of us, the reality is when it became understood that looting a fridge could mean getting shot many opted not to try their luck.

My argument is based purely on this being opportunistic criminal looting, if was a co-ordinated attack, would we be here? I don't think so

**Gleock** · 30-06-2022, 15:41

Originally Posted by GAZZAMCK

Yes and so did many?

My question is did you come under direct and constant attack? I doubt you myself or anyone would hold off 7 to 8 thousand "looters"
because here it was more than that

If they wanted to, they could and would have overwhelmed all of us, the reality is when it became understood that looting a fridge could mean getting shot many opted not to try their luck.

My argument is based purely on this being opportunistic criminal looting, if was a co-ordinated attack, would we be here? I don't think so

It is extremely difficult to reply to this properly being a public forum, but yes we were attacked, by no means was it a road block where people stood around.

It is kind of obvious that nobody, including the police would hold off 7 - 8k, but in saying that you are ignoring what it takes to get 7 - 8k of people together.
If the police had reacted to the intial looting, July wouldn't have happened.
The numbers only swelled to what they were when the word spread that nobody was stopping them.

**oafpatroll** · 30-06-2022, 15:51

Originally Posted by Gleock

The numbers only swelled to what they were when the word spread that nobody was stopping them.

This is the punchline. It's why everything is tipping over in SA, i.e. the news is out that there are few to no consequences. There is little reason to expect that the people who looted won't again and even less to expect that they won't be joined by plenty of others.

A mate of mine is in commercial and retail property management and he said that some of the footage from their properties strongly suggested that there was a fair bit of coordination between the attacks on warehouses and malls particularly. I suspect that was done by the ANC factional players and they too have experienced no consequences. It stands to reason that when they do it again their previous experience will make them better at it.

**MSW2** · 30-06-2022, 16:34

Originally Posted by Gleock

It is extremely difficult to reply to this properly being a public forum, but yes we were attacked, by no means was it a road block where people stood around.

It is kind of obvious that nobody, including the police would hold off 7 - 8k, but in saying that you are ignoring what it takes to get 7 - 8k of people together.
If the police had reacted to the intial looting, July wouldn't have happened.
The numbers only swelled to what they were when the word spread that nobody was stopping them.

Get 8k together fine. Keep them pointed and running in the direction you want them to go with a lot of lead flying in from the opposite direction, not so much.
8k properly armed with a bit of training, that will be something different. There I will agree with you on the not holding off.

**FNBROWNING** · 30-06-2022, 16:49

Originally Posted by GAZZAMCK

Yes and so did many?

My question is did you come under direct and constant attack? I doubt you myself or anyone would hold off 7 to 8 thousand "looters"
because here it was more than that

If they wanted to, they could and would have overwhelmed all of us, the reality is when it became understood that looting a fridge could mean getting shot many opted not to try their luck.

My argument is based purely on this being opportunistic criminal looting, if was a co-ordinated attack, would we be here? I don't think so

The last paragraph is what few grasp. Next time may be different.It only needs a few determined individuals.

**Sean KZN** · 30-06-2022, 16:52

Originally Posted by oafpatroll

This is the punchline. It's why everything is tipping over in SA, i.e. the news is out that there are few to no consequences. There is little reason to expect that the people who looted won't again and even less to expect that they won't be joined by plenty of others.

A mate of mine is in commercial and retail property management and he said that some of the footage from their properties strongly suggested that there was a fair bit of coordination between the attacks on warehouses and malls particularly. I suspect that was done by the ANC factional players and they too have experienced no consequences. It stands to reason that when they do it again their previous experience will make them better at it.

Coordinated is exactly what it was. The modus operandi was for the Merc Vitos or whatever brand of panel van the merc crowd make, to pitch up at target area, break open as many properties as possible.
Then off to the nearest informal settlement, let the word out that there is 'Free shit' waiting for them.
Word would spread about the 'Free shit' and the offer was simply too good to pass up.
No consequences of any concern.
Once cleaned out, the premises would have it's fire system disabled, no pressure with the lack of any real law and order, then torched.

A thought on urban spaces, the game changes considerably when people are really defending their homes and lives as opposed to general property. The pay offs also diminish for the 'Free shit' crowd.
Having somebody die next to you while in pursuit of 'Free shit' which is now scattered around, not like a Game or Makro with it nicely packaged and compartmentalized, so the risk vs reward changes to be a less attractive option for a Joe soap. Not so much for a hardened criminal.

Lastly, we seem to rely too heavily on private security, they also have families so best get used to not having them should a sustained event occur.

**FNBROWNING** · 30-06-2022, 20:45

This was looting, not an angry vicious mob intent on killing.

**noost** · 30-06-2022, 21:00

Originally Posted by FNBROWNING

This was looting, not an angry vicious mob intent on killing.

From what I gather is that the looters were only pawns, chess pieces to be moved around as they were needed.

Why attack community radio stations, factories and farms? No free shit there.

The fotos I have seen there were uniformed males and female "corporals" in the croweds to keep it moving. Who were they?

**GAZZAMCK** · 01-07-2022, 08:51

Originally Posted by FNBROWNING

This was looting, not an angry vicious mob intent on killing.

Exactly my point

Unfortunately the numbers don't lie, and the amount of hockey sticks brought out to "defend" tells alot about our prepredness as a minority in general.

I appreciate what Gleock said, and what they did.

But we have a hell of a long way to go if we are ever going to be anywhere near ready.

Rwanda genocide level of killing is what people should be prepping for, the looters managed to burn down how many shopping centres? Imagine if they though the suburbs were looking tasty.
Suddenly reality of FFS kicks in because we simply are not prepared