243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

**Stevin** · 01-07-2022, 10:00

Originally Posted by Skaaphaas

What are the legalities of hunting with .223? I think most province’s regulations won’t allow for this.

As to the Blackout… I have one. The trajectory is a mess. If you don’t have a range finder it’s difficult to make the shot. It’s one thing talking about shot placement and another thing entirely to make it work in practice.

Imo Blackout isnt a great hunting cartridge, cause as you mention even with light bullets (in my case 110gr at 2150ish fps) the drop after 150m starts getting pretty hard to judge.

**Dinat** · 01-07-2022, 10:18

Originally Posted by Stevin

Imo Blackout isnt a great hunting cartridge, cause as you mention even with light bullets (in my case 110gr at 2150ish fps) the drop after 150m starts getting pretty hard to judge.

What barrel length you have?

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**Messor** · 01-07-2022, 10:24

One must always keep the ability of said cartridge in mind, not just now but for near future as well.
I have kids, they grow up VERY quick, you might buy something now to suit their needs but soon those needs will be more.
So just be careful not to try and buy a Grendel or similar now only to want a creed or swede tomorrow.
The creed and swede you should be able to download to Grendel specs for now, if needs be, but in a few years’ time you might want to up the load. Just like you can download a 308 with 110gr bullets, but you can ramp it up to very heavy bullets if needs be.

**Stevin** · 01-07-2022, 10:34

Originally Posted by Dinat

What barrel length you have?

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10.3inches but there isnt much to be gained in a blackout with longer barrels as there is a full powder burn at around 9 inches.

**SBB** · 01-07-2022, 11:02

A 6.5mm thingmibob of various lengths has a much more noticeable effect on game compared to a 243 win. Secondly blood trail is more profound.

Having grown up with a 243 I was biased towards it naturally but after many years of guiding the difference between the two on medium sized game with heart lung shots is significant imo.

**SBB** · 01-07-2022, 11:06

Regarding the Grendel I was very interested I one at one stage but was wondering if the advertised specs were stretching it.

At a certain velocity bullets start having the same effect on animals as handguns and blackpowder rifles. That is it punches a hole without the normal reaction. What this velocity is im not sure but guessing around 1600fps or less impact velocity.

**Spudattack** · 01-07-2022, 11:15

Originally Posted by Koebelwagen

One thing to keep in mind. Regardless of the cartridge, the bullet still needs to impact the vital areas, be that heart/ lung or CNS i.e. neck/ brain. A poorly placed round from any cartridge still results in wounded/ lost animals. Of all my rifles, I learnt this lesson the hard way with non other than the .300 Win Mag because, you know, magic wand.

With this in mind the .223 is a good cartridge if you keep to shooting lesser sized animals up to about impala. It shoots flat, has very little recoil and at least in my rifle's case it is very accurate. Many, many impala and a couple of springbok have succumbed to the 53gr Barnes TSX bullets I use, whether that be heart/ lung, neck or head shots and touch wood, I have never wounded anything using this rifle. Have not recovered a bullet as yet, all went straight through.

Bonus on the .223 is not only very low recoil but also cost of practice ammo, at less than R10 per round for reloaders you can put a lot more time in on the range using a rifle that makes proper rifle sounds. For youngsters learning to shoot/ hunt the .223 makes a lot of sense; it doesn't hurt them so they will not flinch, it doesn't ruin the parent's bank account and they are mostly built on mini-actions making them compact and easy to fit to smaller people. I would rather have a youngster hunt with a rifle he/ she is confident and competent in shooting than one that he/ she is scared of. Later in life, the youngster can relegate the .223 to varminting duties if he/ she wishes but I guarantee it will always be a favourite.

Agree with everything said here. however…..

Here in NZ we don’t have minimum caliber size for any specific game (on Conservation land .222 is the minimum for any hunting unless you get a pest control permit) so smaller chambering are used a lot on medium and even larger game.

The deer cullers in the 60’s swore by the .222s they were issued, but then again, professionals doing a job, not twice year hunters.

Anyway, the point I am getting to is that in the last few years the new fast twist (1:7 and 1:8) .223s that have come in combined with heavy for calibre mono metal bullets like the 70gr Barnes TTSX have dramatically changed the capability of the .223 and let’s it punch well above its weight.

I have seen many large red stags (kudu size) taken with no drama. Again, shot placement is still key but with the right bullets the .223 can do a good job.

I still wouldn’t recommend it (especially to a new hunter) but just thought it was interesting

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**Antlion** · 01-07-2022, 11:39

Originally Posted by Messor

One must always keep the ability of said cartridge in mind, not just now but for near future as well.
I have kids, they grow up VERY quick, you might buy something now to suit their needs but soon those needs will be more.
So just be careful not to try and buy a Grendel or similar now only to want a creed or swede tomorrow.
The creed and swede you should be able to download to Grendel specs for now, if needs be, but in a few years’ time you might want to up the load. Just like you can download a 308 with 110gr bullets, but you can ramp it up to very heavy bullets if needs be.

Following this thread with interest,being in a similar predicament. How is the meat damage close up with the 243 when using monolithic bullets? Assuming no major bone is hit..After reading this, I'm tempted to try some 110gr/130gr monos in the 308 to see if it brings down the recoil to manageable level for kids. I have never felt a need for a hunting rifle between the .22 and 308 simply because the 308 filled that role just fine.

**pblaauw** · 01-07-2022, 13:05

Originally Posted by Antlion

I'm tempted to try some 110gr/130gr monos in the 308 to see if it brings down the recoil to manageable level for kids.

Back in 2016 I shot several Blesbuck with Impala 130gn mono's from my 3006, so it can easily be done. Not my favorite round anymore, but back then they did the job well enough.

**Adoons** · 01-07-2022, 20:07

The "Rainbow Trajectories" and "Poor long distance performance" written about in this threat amuses me. The OP want his children to learn to hunt? Step 1 of hunting - Stalk close to the target. That is why it is called "Hunting" I thought all the years.

In my family hunting success with the kids are always better when we walk less and sit down quietly in the bush more. They don't get tired, they don't get over excited when suddenly see the quarry within shooting distance etc. They have time to get into a good shooting position, we set up the tripod at the correct length and wait in a spot for 10-20 minutes, glassing the surroundings. Then move on slowly to a next spot. All calibers under discussion should still be in a 6" Point blank range at close distances. We even hunt successfully with the .44 Lever Gun by keeping shots within 70 meters. Mostly we shoot at 20-60 meters.

Teach the kids to hunt, not to shoot.