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  1. #41
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    The "Rainbow Trajectories" and "Poor long distance performance" written about in this threat amuses me. The OP want his children to learn to hunt? Step 1 of hunting - Stalk close to the target. That is why it is called "Hunting" I thought all the years.

    In my family hunting success with the kids are always better when we walk less and sit down quietly in the bush more. They don't get tired, they don't get over excited when suddenly see the quarry within shooting distance etc. They have time to get into a good shooting position, we set up the tripod at the correct length and wait in a spot for 10-20 minutes, glassing the surroundings. Then move on slowly to a next spot. All calibers under discussion should still be in a 6" Point blank range at close distances. We even hunt successfully with the .44 Lever Gun by keeping shots within 70 meters. Mostly we shoot at 20-60 meters.

    Teach the kids to hunt, not to shoot.
    I like your approach and agree with what you state. Moving slowly and being stationary for long periods resulted in my first kudu being shot at less than 20M.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koebelwagen View Post
    I like your approach and agree with what you state. Moving slowly and being stationary for long periods resulted in my first kudu being shot at less than 20M.
    +1 Also allows one to take the heavier rifle that further reduces recoil.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    Quote Originally Posted by Antlion View Post
    Following this thread with interest,being in a similar predicament. How is the meat damage close up with the 243 when using monolithic bullets? Assuming no major bone is hit..After reading this, I'm tempted to try some 110gr/130gr monos in the 308 to see if it brings down the recoil to manageable level for kids. I have never felt a need for a hunting rifle between the .22 and 308 simply because the 308 filled that role just fine.
    Generally, a 130gn mono expander is about the best bullet in a full-power 308 load. I have shot a few kudu with GSC and Barnes TSX 130gn bullets. All worked perfectly and most were found under the skin (opposite side). Remember, a 130 mono is about as long as a 180gn soft point lead/copper type and usually retains more weight.

    A 110 gn with a starting load should be quite comfortable to shoot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    The "Rainbow Trajectories" and "Poor long distance performance" written about in this threat amuses me. The OP want his children to learn to hunt? Step 1 of hunting - Stalk close to the target. That is why it is called "Hunting" I thought all the years.

    ...

    Teach the kids to hunt, not to shoot.
    While i fully agree with your hunting approach, I have to take you to task for your dismissal of marksmanship skills. Marksmanship skills are just as important as hunting skills, as poor shooting will inevitably result in wounded and suffering animals, even at close range. The 2 go together, as long as the shooting skills are not used to make up for poor hunting skills.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    Marksman skills are build on a shooting range. Kids who can shoot can not always hunt. They get “buckfever” or just pull the the trigger when suddenly the buck focus in the scope and seem to be standing really close now.

    But I get your point. Believe me, my 13 yo can hit coke cans at 150m and 2 l bottles at 200 m just as well as at 30 m. But I still don’t allow far hunting shots just because it is the easy wat out, and then it ends in a trip all over the farm after a wounded animal. Closer shots are alwys easier and more sure, even for experienced hunters.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    Marksman skills are build on a shooting range. Kids who can shoot can not always hunt.
    I actually wanted to start a thread about this, because it irks me, more and more I see fathers who just want their kids to shoot something, so they can post pictures of their children with dead animals, no matter how many shots or money it took.

    I believe there should be some “rite of passage” for any young hunter, a long and difficult road to turn someone into a real hunter, not a shooter.
    But that is just a rant for a different time.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    I actually wanted to start a thread about this, because it irks me, more and more I see fathers who just want their kids to shoot something, so they can post pictures of their children with dead animals, no matter how many shots or money it took.

    I believe there should be some “rite of passage” for any young hunter, a long and difficult road to turn someone into a real hunter, not a shooter.
    But that is just a rant for a different time.
    100%

  7. #47
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    ^^ I was at the range sometime after our first lock down. So set up the estate agent type board holder we use for target stands.
    Going hunting next weekend the father says. Last year the nipper hit a Blesbuck in the rear leg.

    So first shot misses the entire target stand, never mind a place on the target. Next 2 or so actually hit somewhere on the stand, not a grouping or anything fancy.

    Mom phones, the nipper needs to go to Saturday sport event.

    Okay, ready to hunt now so off they go.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    I've told this story before but it's worth repeating. One of the best things to ever happen to me was a friend emigrating and giving me a old .22 Brno Mod1 1947. In 2016 my daughter came along on a hunt the first time. Decided after she wants to shoot an animal the next year. Well, I bought a brick of 500 S&B .22 ammo, and she sat at the range for quite a few weekends, starting at 25m, ending at 100m, shooting round after round. After that, I made her shoot about 100 x 130gr Impala's through the 3006 (only other rifle I had at the time). The weekend before her hunt, we bought one of those animal targets, I told her where I want her to aim, and gave her the exact round she was going to shoot (150gr Sako Hammerhead). She placed 3 rounds in the vitals to my satisfaction. The next weekend outside Kroonstad she shot a Blesbok at 112m perfectly in the engine room. She was 10 years old at the time. Two years later in 2019 we had the 6.5 CM, and she shot a Springbok ram in the neck at just over a 100m. I love that old .22 for the fundamentals it has taught her.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    Our Air Arms 200 serves about the same purpose. PCP's are damn difficult to shoot accurately. The slightest flinch or bad trigger finger control and targets are missed. And that makes the youngsters furious. "Why do I miss with the pellet Dad!!" ; "Because you are not doing the basics right..." (And the dad also gets furious from time to time. It takes real concentration.)pblaauw, we must never get your daughter and my blue eye girl on the same range armed with 10/22's. I bet they will finish 500 rounds each before lunch. Ai jai jai.... Not cheap anymore.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: 243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    pblaauw, we must never get your daughter and my blue eye girl on the same range armed with 10/22's. I bet they will finish 500 rounds each before lunch. Ai jai jai.... Not cheap anymore.
    There's a reason I never take her to the range with my AR15

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