243 vs 6.5Creedmoor

[pblaauw]

Just buy the 6mm Creedmoor, best of both worlds. Factory ammo isn't as prevalent but if you hand load you should be good, and the twist rate allows you to load slightly heavier bullets.

[Wesley]

You can’t seriously advocate a .222 or .223 as a hunting rifle for youths.

A .223 shooting a Barnes or similar bullet is far superior to the 6.5 Grendel for the purpose as stated by the OP. Having experience with both, the 6.5 Grendel just doesn’t have enough oomph to cause significant damage, especially on a shot that may be placed a little off the mark.

The .243Win to me is on the opposite end of the scale when compared to the 6.5 Grendel. For youths, shots will normally be on slightly smaller game like Impala or Blesbuck at nearer distances. The .243Win is wasteful when applied in this manner. I guess you could also try and fix this by using a Barnes bullet. To me, a .243Win is more of a specialist varminting cartridge than a hunting cartridge. I’m sure many people will disagree with me though and I am sure it is used successfully. (I am also disinclined to the .243Win because of the limited barrel life and doughnuts forming in the case necks.)

Something that is just as important as calibre selection, is the fit of the rifle. Even the best selected cartridge can lead to heartache if the hunter cannot properly handle or feel comfortable behind the rifle. (As much as it pains me to say this, this is an area where AR15’s shine, simply because you can make the rifle fit the shooter better. )

A really good choice is a Ruger Youth bolt action rifle chambered in 7mm08. I almost want to say, until my children can comfortably handle this little compact rifle or something like it, they’ll be manning the .22lr honing their shooting skill. There is nothing wrong with delaying the hunt until a more suitable time to ensure a positive first hunting experience.

Great dilemma to have! All the best.

[Adoons]

Asking because I haven't checked out the details, so maybe it is a "brain fart" coming:

Reduced loads for the .308 you have with 130 or even 110 gr bullets for a few years until the kids can handle the recoil? I have 0 experience with reduced loads or loading, but a 130 gr bullet @ 1800-2200 fps will down any Impala or Blesbuck, should be accurate enough out to 150 meters and should be light on shoulder?

[Stevin]

Have you considered a 6.5 Grendell?

If you're going to suggest Grendel. I would suggest a look at 6mm ARC.
Just because from a bolt action you are able to load them very long and take advantage of the high BC bullets. It also shoots a little softer imo.

Either way both would work, and be softer shooting than the 243, and way softer shooting than the 6.5cm.

[Stevin]

A .223 shooting a Barnes or similar bullet is far superior to the 6.5 Grendel for the purpose as stated by the OP. Having experience with both, the 6.5 Grendel just doesn’t have enough oomph to cause significant damage, especially on a shot that may be placed a little off the mark.

The .243Win to me is on the opposite end of the scale when compared to the 6.5 Grendel. For youths, shots will normally be on slightly smaller game like Impala or Blesbuck at nearer distances. The .243Win is wasteful when applied in this manner. I guess you could also try and fix this by using a Barnes bullet. To me, a .243Win is more of a specialist varminting cartridge than a hunting cartridge. I’m sure many people will disagree with me though and I am sure it is used successfully. (I am also disinclined to the .243Win because of the limited barrel life and doughnuts forming in the case necks.)

Something that is just as important as calibre selection, is the fit of the rifle. Even the best selected cartridge can lead to heartache if the hunter cannot properly handle or feel comfortable behind the rifle. (As much as it pains me to say this, this is an area where AR15’s shine, simply because you can make the rifle fit the shooter better. )

A really good choice is a Ruger Youth bolt action rifle chambered in 7mm08. I almost want to say, until my children can comfortably handle this little compact rifle or something like it, they’ll be manning the .22lr honing their shooting skill. There is nothing wrong with delaying the hunt until a more suitable time to ensure a positive first hunting experience.

Great dilemma to have! All the best.

Explain your rationale behind 223 vs Grendel?

Grendel delivers more energy on target than a 223 ever will. You can shoot them with fairly high BC bullets and I don't understand how a 223 going around 3000fps with a lighter bullet, is that much less effective than a Grendel going about 2600fps?

[Ds J]

Explain your rationale behind 223 vs Grendel?

Grendel delivers more energy on target than a 223 ever will. You can shoot them with fairly high BC bullets and I don't understand how a 223 going around 3000fps with a lighter bullet, is that much less effective than a Grendel going about 2600fps?

Stevin, there has been a report that the 6.5mm Grendell did not deliver adequate penetration in the field. If memory serves correct the shooter took three shots at a blue wildebeest and the bullets did not penetrate the skull at roughly 120m.Saying this, one needs to be careful of simply bashing a certain calibre. It could very well have been spectacular bullet failure, or a dumb choice of bullets. I do not know whether it was a once-off occurrence, or repeated at other occasions.

[TStone]

Stevin, there has been a report that the 6.5mm Grendell did not deliver adequate penetration in the field. If memory serves correct the shooter took three shots at a blue wildebeest and the bullets did not penetrate the skull at roughly 120m.Saying this, one needs to be careful of simply bashing a certain calibre. It could very well have been spectacular bullet failure, or a dumb choice of bullets. I do not know whether it was a once-off occurrence, or repeated at other occasions.

I'll admit to not being a ballistic genius but just from a common sense standpoint this does not make sense to me. I have no experience with the 6.5 Grendel but I do have a lot of experience on game with the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55. A 6.5mm bullet does not know which case it was fired from, neither does the animal hit by the bullet know.

I'm going to use the 120gr Hornady gmx as an example becauseI have shot a lot of game with it, including blesbuck and black wildebeest out to 450m with good results.
From the Creedmoor this bullet has a mv of 2800 fps.
You should be able to shoot it from a Grendel at 2300 fps.
At 450m the bullet fired from the Creedmoor is travelling at just over 1800fps. At this distance this bullet have sufficient energy to penetrate both shoulder of a black wildebeest and exit, exit holes and damage to organs indicate adequate expansion.
At 150m the same bullet fired from the Grendel is doing over 1900fps.
So at 120m the Grendel bullet will have more energy than the one fired from the Creedmoor at 450m.

If the bullets failed to penetrate the wildebeest skull at 120m I believe that it is a bullet failure problem, not a cartridge problem

[Vaal]

What about a 7.62 × 39? How good is it as a hunting caliber?

[Ds J]

I'll admit to not being a ballistic genius but just from a common sense standpoint this does not make sense to me. I have no experience with the 6.5 Grendel but I do have a lot of experience on game with the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55. A 6.5mm bullet does not know which case it was fired from, neither does the animal hit by the bullet know.

I'm going to use the 120gr Hornady gmx as an example becauseI have shot a lot of game with it, including blesbuck and black wildebeest out to 450m with good results.
From the Creedmoor this bullet has a mv of 2800 fps.
You should be able to shoot it from a Grendel at 2300 fps.
At 450m the bullet fired from the Creedmoor is travelling at just over 1800fps. At this distance this bullet have sufficient energy to penetrate both shoulder of a black wildebeest and exit, exit holes and damage to organs indicate adequate expansion.
At 150m the same bullet fired from the Grendel is doing over 1900fps.
So at 120m the Grendel bullet will have more energy than the one fired from the Creedmoor at 450m.

If the bullets failed to penetrate the wildebeest skull at 120m I believe that it is a bullet failure problem, not a cartridge problem

"Ek het my (kinders se) 6.5Grendel verkoop na ek een bok geskiet het. Ek is nie oortuig dat my kinders bokke effektief met hom sou kon dood nie en sal hul eerder my .260AI gee of die 7-08AI wat ek beplan om te bou.

Dit was 'n jong blouwildebees bul met 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Hunting teen 2680fps.

Eerste skoot skuins van agter op die oor knop op 210y
Tweede skoot voor die kop op 250y
Derde skoot tussen die oog en oor op 310y

Die vierde en laaste skoot is met 'n .243Ackley met 87gr VMax geskiet in die oor toe is hy eers dood."

( https://www.jaracal.com/viewtopic.php?t=76355 )

[Pirate]

"... 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Hunting teen 2680fps.

there's probably part of the problem...
and then one has to trust that all the shots really did hit whete he says it did...