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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Musgrave AR 16 or Taurus P4 or Ruger MPR

    Quote Originally Posted by FNBROWNING View Post
    The carbine length gas system by its very nature taps gas at a higher pressure point on the barrel. It is also common knowledge and I speak from personal experience that the gas port size on many commercial carbine rifles is oversize to cater for weak 223 ammunition. A rifle system has a longer dwell time thereby allowing the gas forces to operate over a longer period. This combined with the lower port pressure at the gas block allows for a lower overall operating pressure. The rifle gas length therefore not only feels smoother but also seems to run a bit cleaner. Also personal experience.
    Pressure at the port is one thing. Pressure at the BCG is where it's important.
    An oversized Rifle Gas system can create just as much pressure at the BCG as a Carbine system.
    The increased dwell time just has pressure applied more gradually over a longer period of time, as well as a lower chamber pressure when unlocking occurs.

    I do agree that gas ports on carbine length gas systems as well over sized from M4 spec, but I can attest that pretty much every rifle length system I've put together is also oversized compared with what is considered the "mil spec" or at least the spec required for the M16A4. Almost every single Rifle I've measured has had an oversize gas port no matter the gas system length.


    Anyways... we getting off track here in the OP's thread, and I would hate for another thread to be derailed with this sort of discussion.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevin View Post
    Pressure at the port is one thing. Pressure at the BCG is where it's important.
    An oversized Rifle Gas system can create just as much pressure at the BCG as a Carbine system.
    The increased dwell time just has pressure applied more gradually over a longer period of time, as well as a lower chamber pressure when unlocking occurs.

    I do agree that gas ports on carbine length gas systems as well over sized from M4 spec, but I can attest that pretty much every rifle length system I've put together is also oversized compared with what is considered the "mil spec" or at least the spec required for the M16A4. Almost every single Rifle I've measured has had an oversize gas port no matter the gas system length.


    Anyways... we getting off track here in the OP's thread, and I would hate for another thread to be derailed with this sort of discussion.
    Please explain how a rifle system can create as much pressure at the BCG? Longer is not higher pressure. Every table I have ever seen sais otherwise.Pressure is always higher the closer you are to the chamber. Simple physics tells us this. Because of the longer but lower pressure there is little need for hogged out gas ports.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Musgrave AR 16 or Taurus P4 or Ruger MPR

    Quote Originally Posted by FNBROWNING View Post
    Please explain how a rifle system can create as much pressure at the BCG? Longer is not higher pressure. Every table I have ever seen sais otherwise.Pressure is always higher the closer you are to the chamber. Simple physics tells us this. Because of the longer but lower pressure there is little need for hogged out gas ports.
    I think you miss my distinction here.

    "An oversized Rifle Gas system can create just as much pressure at the BCG as a Carbine system."

    It's just an assumption on my part, but I believe you thought I was saying an oversized carbine gas port can great just as much gas pressure as a oversize rifle port.
    I just mentioned that a Rifle gas system can create the same amount of pressure as a gas port located closer to the chamber without qualifying it, as I am not sure what size port would be needed to match the pressure curve.

    So think of it as more as a passing remark that port location is not the only factor to consider when speaking about over gassed rifles.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Musgrave AR 16 or Taurus P4 or Ruger MPR

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacana View Post

    Only downside to the Musgrave it is not 556 and as such can only shoot 223.
    Really? Did the genius who provided you with this little factoid manage to articulate exactly what the difference is between 5.56 and .223... As it relates to different internal dimensions of various chambers and how a rifle that is clearly marked / intended to be sold / specced as the "real deal" 5.56 x 45 is not going to be 5.56 x 45 once the cutters start wearing"?

    And if you have a rifle with a very abrupt / tight (like tighter than a Franciscan nun kinda tight) .223 chamber how easy it is to have the lead cut to .223 Wylde with a simple hand held cutter?

    I know my post is not constructive or helpfull but I cannot help pointing out stupid shit...

    And the other thing is I have seen a Musgrave AR gobble up so called milspec 5.56 ammo and just keep running like a train when some of the more reliable and indestructable LM's were shitting the bed with the same ammo.

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