Cases of Firearm Use

**SSP** · 08-08-2023, 10:45

Originally Posted by Carter Brink

Thanks for the input.

I think this needs to be approached from a statistical, basic maths perspective. If your odds of winning such a case are around 20 percent or lower (example), then is it even worth carrying in first place?

The odds of needing to use a firearm in self defence on any given day are low when compared to the days that you don't need one.

The statistical argument is flawed. We don't carry guns because of the statistical probabilities, but rather the possibility of needing a firearm to defend oneself.

**SSP** · 08-08-2023, 10:46

Originally Posted by Skaaphaas

A docket being opened for murder, culpable homicide is really only so the investigating officer has a place to put the statements in. Whatever is written on the front isn’t worth much until a charge sheet is written up.

Especially if they don't know what inquest dockets are for.

**Carter Brink** · 08-08-2023, 10:50

Originally Posted by SSP

The statistical argument is flawed.

Please explain more

**oafpatroll** · 08-08-2023, 11:12

Originally Posted by Carter Brink

Thanks for the input.

I think this needs to be approached from a statistical, basic maths perspective. If your odds of winning such a case are around 20 percent or lower (example), then is it even worth carrying in first place?

It's not a lotto so that doesn't work. It's worth carrying if you think that you may like to kill someone who wants to kill you or a loved one more than you fear the legal process that follows.

**Desperatezulu** · 08-08-2023, 11:13

Stats have f-all to do with the law. Each case is considered on its merits.

To illustrate the non-logic of stats in your argument - you probably have a 1 in ?0,000 chance of NEEDING your SD weapon in a scenario where its use is justified. So applying your thinking, given the low probability of requiring an SD weapon, why bother carrying?

Or is your thought process, "Hey SA is a pretty dangerous place, I value my life and those of my loved ones and the law/FCA allows for me to carry a self-defence weapon, so I choose to do so in case I'm one of the unlucky ones and find myself in a situation where valued lives are in immediate peril"?

Tweaking your argument even further, what odds of "winning" (sic) do you require to justify your choice to carry an EDC/SD weapon?

**oafpatroll** · 08-08-2023, 11:15

Originally Posted by Skaaphaas

You’ll find more than a few cases right here on GS of defensive gun-use examples, where the person was either not charged, or if charged, acquitted. In far, far more than 50% of the cases.

A docket being opened for murder, culpable homicide is really only so the investigating officer has a place to put the statements in. Whatever is written on the front isn’t worth much until a charge sheet is written up.

Thanks for clearing up the docket/charges thing. I conflated the two.

**GP100** · 08-08-2023, 11:29

Rather Shockingly in my very tiny circle of family, friends and colleagues I know of 5 cases where the legal use of firearms were involved for legal defense.

Most of them either had a Murder Docket or Attempted Murder Docket opened.
Most of them ended up spending a fair amount on attorneys fees because of their fear in the unknowns in our legal system.
None of them understood or took time to understand the processes prior to their events.

My take away from all but 1 was that SAPS and Courts are not out to get you and like with most things there are processes to be followed by them and boxes to be ticked.
In the outlier case, it is my personal competency requirements reading of the act and uneducated belief, a heavy hand in leniency was applied.

The worst affected ended up with far more complications and legal issues from an anti type neighbor and a .22 round exiting and coming to rest in their lapa . Ironically this was also the case where SAPS etc. only went through the motions to finalize without much fuss.

So from my limited sample size I am happy to continue to EDC and defend my family should I ever be unlucky enough to have to do so...

**Carter Brink** · 08-08-2023, 11:31

Originally Posted by Desperatezulu

Stats have f-all to do with the law. Each case is considered on its merits.

To illustrate the non-logic of stats in your argument - you probably have a 1 in ?0,000 chance of NEEDING your SD weapon in a scenario where its use is justified. So applying your thinking, given the low probability of requiring an SD weapon, why bother carrying?

Or is your thought process, "Hey SA is a pretty dangerous place, I value my life and those of my loved ones and the law/FCA allows for me to carry a self-defence weapon, so I choose to do so in case I'm one of the unlucky ones and find myself in a situation where valued lives are in immediate peril"?

Tweaking your argument even further, what odds of "winning" (sic) do you require to justify your choice to carry an EDC/SD weapon?

A risk of life in jail vs a risk of dying at the hands common criminal
Which is worse? Not an easy question? It depends on the risks involved

**oafpatroll** · 08-08-2023, 11:35

Originally Posted by Carter Brink

A risk of life in jail vs a risk of dying at the hands common criminal
Which is worse? Not an easy question? It depends on the risks involved

Do you wear a seat belt?

**aimpoint** · 08-08-2023, 11:44

Originally Posted by Carter Brink

A risk of life in jail vs a risk of dying at the hands common criminal
Which is worse? Not an easy question? It depends on the risks involved

I would rather have the tools in my possession to defend myself in any life threatening situation than no tools … and worry about consequences later.

My suggestion to you is rather not carry as any hesitation to use it is already to late…

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