Factory rifle accuracy survey

[Againstthegrains]

You often hear that one brand of factory produced rifle is more accurate than another, or a particular brand guarantees sub MOA.

Online reviewers erroneously compare a bunch of rifles with one batch of factory ammo, and choose the "winner", of which the result could be totally different if they used a different make of factory ammo. And of course, each review finds a different winning brand, so you cannot make any real sense from their comparisons. The reviewers with a bigger budget now have the sense to test a variety of factory loads and take an average, but that is still testing only one rifle from that brand. I have never seen anybody testing say 20 Howa's and 20 Tikka's to test how consistent is the accuracy across a bunch of rifles and then take an average.

What got me thinking, was a discussion I had with a few friends who shoot enough to go through a barrel every year or two. They have bought factory rifles that shot 1 hole groups from the word go with hand loads, rifles that they could get to within 0.5MOA but never better, and rifles that they struggled to get to an MOA with hand loads. Some, they just never managed to get right without significant customization. It's a bit like having kids and comparing their marks at school. Some kids have an intrinsic ability to score A's for all subjects all the time, while others require a lot of work to get good marks, and some are just not academically inclined, and will never get an A for anything.

What I am trying to get here, is to put together a database of factory produced rifles to see if there really are rifle brands that are better than others.

If you own a factory produced rifle/s I would like to know how it performs, so data such as brand, caliber, barrel profile (standard, heavy, varmint), barrel length, twist, bedding, and ammo used and how it shoots. I think 4 categories are enough:

1: 1 hole group or at least holes touching at 100m
2: Groups at around 0.5 MOA
3: Groups around 1 MOA
4: Groups greater than 1 MOA

[Againstthegrains]

Howa 1500 .204 Ruger, standard barrel 22 inch, glass bedded on a laminate stock.

Shoots a sub 0.5 MOA group with handloads with 32gr V-max.

[oafpatroll]

Winchester Mod 70 Classic Sporter .270 Win 23.5 inch barrel in bedded walnut stock.

0.5 MOA with handloads using 140gr Interlocks
1 MOA with handloads using cast, powdercoated and gas checked Lyman 130gr

Rifle is of early 90's vintage so not super helpful to anyone looking for something new.

[Heath Robinson]

Sorry, but I see many issues.

Firstly, what is the definition here? Is it every single group, or just "most" of them. And what size of group? 2 shots, 3, 5 or 10? Etc.
I doubt many people have the skill and equipment (rests and so forth) to consistently get better-than-0.5MOA from what I would consider to be a "hunting" rifle.

But I will participate anyway.
I don't have anything one could conceivably call a "factory" rifle anymore, at least not one currently being manufactured.
I have owned two though:
1) Rossi Puma, .44-40. 20" Carbine barrel. When I still had working eyes, it shot around 2" @100 with hand-loads using cast bullets, and about 1.5" with 200gr Speer JHP's. Still own the rifle, just don't shoot it like that anymore. Plus I have changed a lot of things.
2) Ruger M77 RSI Mk2. Full stock, 18.5" barrel of extremely thin profile. When new, it did about 1MOA. However that stopped happening. Fiddling with the bedding would usually get it back to 1MOA for a short while, but it would deteriorate again. Eventually gave it away.

[Koebelwagen]

You often hear that one brand of factory produced rifle is more accurate than another, or a particular brand guarantees sub MOA.

Online reviewers erroneously compare a bunch of rifles with one batch of factory ammo, and choose the "winner", of which the result could be totally different if they used a different make of factory ammo. And of course, each review finds a different winning brand, so you cannot make any real sense from their comparisons. The reviewers with a bigger budget now have the sense to test a variety of factory loads and take an average, but that is still testing only one rifle from that brand. I have never seen anybody testing say 20 Howa's and 20 Tikka's to test how consistent is the accuracy across a bunch of rifles and then take an average.

What got me thinking, was a discussion I had with a few friends who shoot enough to go through a barrel every year or two. They have bought factory rifles that shot 1 hole groups from the word go with hand loads, rifles that they could get to within 0.5MOA but never better, and rifles that they struggled to get to an MOA with hand loads. Some, they just never managed to get right without significant customization. It's a bit like having kids and comparing their marks at school. Some kids have an intrinsic ability to score A's for all subjects all the time, while others require a lot of work to get good marks, and some are just not academically inclined, and will never get an A for anything.

What I am trying to get here, is to put together a database of factory produced rifles to see if there really are rifle brands that are better than others.

If you own a factory produced rifle/s I would like to know how it performs, so data such as brand, caliber, barrel profile (standard, heavy, varmint), barrel length, twist, bedding, and ammo used and how it shoots. I think 4 categories are enough:

1: 1 hole group or at least holes touching at 100m
2: Groups at around 0.5 MOA
3: Groups around 1 MOA
4: Groups greater than 1 MOA

A fun but ultimately pointless exercise.

I own 5 CZ factory rifles although only 4 are completely stock.

CZ 457 .22LR unmodified - 1MOA at 50M with Sellier & Bellot Club or Eley Sport. Heavy Varmint Barrel.
CZ 527 .223Rem - 3MOA stock, sub MOA after bedding. Hand loads. Sporter Barrel
CZ 550 7x57 unmodified - 1.2MOA with hand loads. Sporter Barrel
CZ 550 9.3x62 unmodified - 1.2MOA with Hornady Custom .286gr factory ammo. Sporter Barrel
CZ 550 .458 Lott unmodified - 2MOA with hand loads. Sporter Barrel

My Howa 1500 in .243 Win has always been a 1MOA or better rifle even when stock but is now heavily modified. Hand loads, Heavy Varmint Barrel.

Marlin 1894 357Mag unmodified - 3MOA with hand loads. Sporter Barrel.

Please note I am indicating group sizes I can consistently get including so-called "flyers" i.e. you can meet me at the range tomorrow and all targets shot will be what I stated or better.

Now, the ugly truth about almost all mass produced rifles:

If you take a cross section of rifles produced there will be a small number of exceptionally accurate, a greater number of acceptably accurate and a small number of completely inaccurate specimens.

I owned a tarted up, 1MOA guaranteed Weatherby Vanguard (Howa M1500 with fancy stock) that couldn't even manage 4MOA consistently regardless of ammo, bedding, re-crowning etc. It was just a dog from day 1 and I took a R13k bath (Excluding all the money spent on attempting to have it fixed) when I sold it back to the gun shop who sold it to me.

My dad owns a stock Ruger American in .243Win that is more accurate than my Howa despite having been the cheapest centre fire rifle you could buy at the time; he paid less than R6k for it when Howa was already a R10k+ rifle

Almost all rifles respond well to bedding and other accurising. Sometimes a "cheaper" rifle can become a better shooter than a more "expensive" rifle with the same amount of money spent, sometimes it is just a more accurate rifle despite being cheap.

Having said this I do accept that some brands will be more consistently accurate overall but then for the price, they should be.

[oafpatroll]

After reading the last two posts I thought it best to clarify. My groups below are what I can get on a good day when I do everything more right than wrong but have been repeated enough times for me to be confident that the rifle, if not its driver, is capable of those consistently.

Winchester Mod 70 Classic Sporter .270 Win 23.5 inch barrel in bedded walnut stock.

0.5 MOA with handloads using 140gr Interlocks
1 MOA with handloads using cast, powdercoated and gas checked Lyman 130gr

Rifle is of early 90's vintage so not super helpful to anyone looking for something new.

[shooty]

Both my SAKO 85's shoot 0.5 MOA on a bad day. Holes always touch and overlaps.

Sako 85 308 Varmint 1/11 twist. 155 AMAX or ELD-X with 40gr S335. Just big clover leaf. Atec 50 Silencer with Brake attachment.
Sako 85 222rem Hunter Stainless. 52 VMax with 23.7gr S321. Also basically just one hole groups. Ase SL5 Fitted.

Ive posted the groups several times.

The best upgrade to any rifle. Or benefit to any rifle is a good trigger. Upgrading a trigger delivers the most accuracy gain.

Luckily the Sako's come with very good triggers and you can adjust the factory one down to 2 Pounds. And by changing out spring to under a pound if needed.

[FNBROWNING]

You would need a 10 round group shot several times and counting all 10 shots to confirm accuracy. Too much luck involved in the likes of 3 round groups.

[TStone]

You would need a 10 round group shot several times and counting all 10 shots to confirm accuracy. Too much luck involved in the likes of 3 round groups.

I feel that 3 shot groups are fine for hunting rifles (and this was posted under hunting rifles) as long as you get consistent accuracy with several consecutive groups.

Below, all 3 shot groups at 100m.
Howa 1500 6mm Creedmoor semi-bull barrel. I had the barrel cut back to 22" and a trigger job done, apart from that it is standard including a Hogue stock that has not been altered in any way:
Handloads with 87gr Vmax, Consecutive 3 shot groups: 18mm/16mm/18mm.
Handload with 90gr Hornady CX bullet: 14mm 3 shot group. These bullets are too expensive to shoot groups with but I shot pairs out to 300m to confirm drop and all were very close to 1/2moa. Results hunting confirm that this load is very accurate (by hunting standards).

Howa 1500 bull barrel in Euro Varmint laminated stock, trigger job, otherwise standard:
Handload with 143gr ELD-X: Consecutive 3 shot groups: 11mm/17mm/15mm/14mm.

Howa 1500, .30-'06, fluted sporter barrel. Trigger job and in standard Howa Hunter wooden stock:
Handload 167gr Peregrine VLR4: Consecutive 3 shot groups at 100m 25mm/25mm, at 200m 56mm.
Handload 150gr SBC: 13mm @ 100m (1 group). Pairs shot at 200 & 300m confirm ½moa accuracy.

Winchester mod 70 Safari Express .416 rem mag:
Handloads Frontier 410gr: 3moa.
Hornady DGX and DGS, Peregrine VRG3 400gr: 2moa.
SBC 400gr: 27mm @ 100m.
Admittedly I have not shot many groups with this rifle and after initial accuracy tests, shoot pairs to confirm zero and drop.

My other rifles have all been re-barreled or otherwise altered.

I am not a target shooter but for their intended purposes, hunting, I believe all of the above delivers more than adequate accuracy for their respected purposes.

[Pirate]

My Howa 1500 223Rem is practically factory standard, except for a spacer under the recoil lug to lift the barrel from the Hogue stock's channel to ensure a free float. No other bedding or doodahs. Best 10shot group (Nosler 70gr RDFs varying from 24.1mm to 25mm BULLET length in 0.1mm intervals) measured just over 1MOA. I stopped shooting groups with it after that I accept it shoots where I aim if I do my job. This rifle has never seen a factory round in its life.


Both my 308s are 51years old (BRNO and Musgrave) and both are (essentially) in factory original condition. No bedding or anything. BRNO used to shoot 1 MOA 3-shot groups with handloads from 150gr to 220gr, all falling in a neat row below each other. In a moment of ignorant madness I sanded the barrel channel to smooth the two uneven places it touched the barrel, and totally fcked up that consistency. I managed to return it for specific loads by artificially adding a pressure point again, but its now more finicky than it used to be. Remanufacture milsurp did ~1.5MOA, PMP Brown Box 150gr did better than 1MOA, 180gr Brown Box and 180gr Sako Hammerhead factory ammo were closer to 2MOA.

Musgrave Vrystaat only really shoots target loads, boringly consistent at just under 1 MOA. It features a specific pressure point under the barrel at the tip of the stock and I'm not screwing with that. I did check my BRNO's 150gr hunting load in it and that also printed around 1 MOA (was a long while ago, can't remember the specifics). This rifle has not seen a single factory round since I own it, but my dad said it did well with milsurp.

CZ550 9.3x62 is 11y old and also factory standard. 286gr ProAmm factory ammo does just less than 1MOA over 3 shots. 200gr Impala handloads and 250gr Peregrine handloads both around 1MOA, 294gr Frontier Rangemaster CMJs (kindly gifted by TStone) just over 1 MOA. Barrel is factory free-floated.

I plan to have the CZ epoxy bedded (primarily for consistency of contact with the stock, not primarily for precision purposes). If that comes out REALLY neat and close to invisible I'll consider having the BRNO bedded in a similar manner.

My Musgrave Ambidex is like the kid you really love but that gives you grey hairs. I really just shouldn't try and shoot groups with it, and just shoot at things with it (which it will then in general hit just fine...) Not only does it have a slightly slower than standard twist (making it VERY finicky about ammo, if anyone has a lead on Winchester 555 please let me know!) but I believe it's also actually moving in the stock, leading to a wandering zero. It shows all the accuracy potential for a few shots and then it puts the next one somewhere makes you scratch your head and question your shooting ability. If it was ANYTHING else I would have the stock epoxy bedded and pillars installed in a heartbeat, because it has no proper way to transfer the tiny bit of recoil to the stock other than through friction. But it now is an essentially unobtainable collectible which makes me very reluctant to do any permanent modifications. Again, if the 9.3s bedding job comes out close to invisible I may consider it for this one too...