Folding stock for SMLE

[Dick]

Anyone know where I can get a folding stock that will fit the SMLE buttstock socket? Or where I can get drawings to make one. I've tried to figure something out myself but haven't done too well.

[A-R]

Anyone know where I can get a folding stock that will fit the SMLE buttstock socket? Or where I can get drawings to make one. I've tried to figure something out myself but haven't done too well.

I have one that was made by Hire Arms/ Valley Trading. They have moved shop from where I last visited them in Wynberg, Jhb, so find Bruce Wentzel and see what he has available.

While the R/LM style folding stock does make a rifle or carbine easier to transport, I find them somewhat uncomfortable to shoot. When I get the time, I want to make a Kydex cheek piece riser to try and improve the ergonomics.

[Dick]

Many thanks AR. I've scratched my head a good bit about it but seem unable to design anything practical. The odds are that nothing will come of it, but the idea is to cut down a somewhat dog eared but functionally sound SMLE into a compact (nicely portable) combat piece. A short, something like 12 inch barrel should fire a heavy (at least 200 grain) bullet at well over 1000FPS which is plenty for street fighting and allow a suppressor without making the piece too long. Or an even heavier subsonic bullet. Bolt action isn't ideal these days but by no means useless and ten round detachable mags are still useful not to mention clip loading (I have several clips). Besides it shouldn't be impossible to make 20 round mags. But these are just general ideas that I can't say are reasonable with any certainty. Or whether the work is worth the trouble.

[A-R]

Many thanks AR. I've scratched my head a good bit about it but seem unable to design anything practical. The odds are that nothing will come of it, but the idea is to cut down a somewhat dog eared but functionally sound SMLE into a compact (nicely portable) combat piece. A short, something like 12 inch barrel should fire a heavy (at least 200 grain) bullet at well over 1000FPS which is plenty for street fighting and allow a suppressor without making the piece too long. Or an even heavier subsonic bullet. Bolt action isn't ideal these days but by no means useless and ten round detachable mags are still useful not to mention clip loading (I have several clips). Besides it shouldn't be impossible to make 20 round mags. But these are just general ideas that I can't say are reasonable with any certainty. Or whether the work is worth the trouble.

I have not played with subsonic loads, but do have my reservations about such loads in a case with capacity for +/-50gn of powder. I have personally seen damage done by a light loads of MP200 and filler in a 308 and 375H&H.

A friend who has hunted bushpig with a 220gn bullet from 300BLK loaded to 1050fps has reported dismal terminal performance, with wounded pigs escaping and lost. The bullets were simply too slow to expand and cause a proper wound channel. He changed his load to a 110gn expanding copper bullet at 2300fps and the pigs dropped where shot. This just for reference.

Back to a chopped 303:
I would stick to the proven 10-round mags. Load them properly and they seem to feed. Getting a 20-rounder to do so might require more time and patience than available.
With 174-180gn bullets and S335 or similar (this includes the military FMJ ammo), the powder burns completely within 16" of the barrel. This would make 16" my shortest barrel length option.
For a cast bullet load, I would opt for a 180-220gn (200gn is right in the middle) powder coated bullet without gas check and see how fast I could push it with S335 (or similar). I would start at a 55% case fill load and work up from there. I would try to avoid a filler, as the rifle is supposed to work with a suppressor. A gas checked cast bullet will also work, but add to the cost of each round.
Sights would be a red dot sight, mounted just in front of the action, with a ghost ring rear and fibre optic post front as backup. This will keep the action clear for stripper clip loading.
The primary function of a butt stock is to support the rifle and equally importantly to give a good cheek-weld that automatically aligns your shooting eye with the sights. Any stock modification should focus on that. To me, compact and handy is of no use if I struggle to shoot it well. This is where many of the folding stock conversions fail. With a bit of craftiness, this can be overcome.
Such a shortened 303 rifle will have several practical uses, including hunting in thickets and some defensive applications. With a little practise, the smooth bolt action can be made to shoot pretty fast if needed.
All the people who I have talked to that have 16" and 17" barrelled suppressed 303's report that the accuracy has actually improved from the original long-barrelled format, with all of them grouping well below 2MOA and 2 of them consistently doing 1MOA from a rest.
I would not go to a 12" barrel, as the suppressor will likely accumulate a lot of unburned residues over time. Without a suppressor the noise would be a serious problem.

What does work well in a 12" barrelled SMLE, is a 44Mag loaded to subsonic velocities. This takes more effort as the barrel needs to be replaced, and the mag needs major modifications. Flat nosed 320gn 44 bullets give rather good terminal performance too. Just a thought.

[Heath Robinson]

A friend who has hunted bushpig with a 220gn bullet from 300BLK loaded to 1050fps has reported dismal terminal performance, with wounded pigs escaping and lost. The bullets were simply too slow to expand and cause a proper wound channel. He changed his load to a 110gn expanding copper bullet at 2300fps and the pigs dropped where shot. This just for reference.

What does work well in a 12" barrelled SMLE, is a 44Mag loaded to subsonic velocities. This takes more effort as the barrel needs to be replaced, and the mag needs major modifications. Flat nosed 320gn 44 bullets give rather good terminal performance too. Just a thought.

I think terminal performance relies to some extent on what the user is expecting.
My first rifle was a Rossi in .44-40, and I hunted bushveld Impala with this for around 3-4 years before up-gunning to .30-06. In the years since I have used all sorts of things from .22 Hornet to .577-450 (in caliber) and .416 Wby (in power).

A large part of the reason I upgraded was that I accidentally found a dead Impala that I had been convinced that I must have missed, because I could find no blood spoor on relatively clean dry ground.
I found later there is after all a huge difference in performance between flat-nosed lead and good modern hollow-points, but even with those the terminal effectiveness was not nearly on par with Mach 2.5 impact velocities.

Not knowing what your friend with the Blackout used, I would have thought that this caliber would be one of the best available now due to the bullet development that has taken place specifically for that caliber.

But in effect I am basically agree with your advice. .311 bullets designed to expand reliably at subsonic velocities aren't really a thing, and silencing a supersonic round still has significant benefits.

To get back to the original question, I think the R/LM-style folding mechanism probably provides the most cost-effective way to make a reasonably secure stock, although the but-plate is a bit narrow for a .303 and it folds in the wrong direction for a bolt action. And as AR has said, cheek weld is an issue with scope mounts. I once made a clip-on thing from Vescoflex that worked pretty well, but if stripper-loading is to be a thing you will want a scout scope or a forward-mounted red dot, and I guess that could be kept low enough that an iron-sight stock design can work reasonably well.

[oafpatroll]

Something like this with a hinge built into the socket end of the stock would probably be more pleasant to shoot.

[GAZZAMCK]

https://milspec.co.za/2.0/gmedia/04_...303_rifle-jpg/

[oafpatroll]

https://milspec.co.za/2.0/gmedia/04_...303_rifle-jpg/

That's the Hire Arms type R rifle stocked pattern that are unpleasant to shoot. There's a lot of drop in the stock and no great way to get a good cheek weld.

There's a weird starship trooperish chassis thing i saw once from an Indian manufacturer that i will try to find and post.

[oafpatroll]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-indian-style/

[Fire-stick]

Scroll down their page, I know that the listing is a few years old but they may know of an available stock.
No idea if they are still active.

(I came across the page and have no affiliation to them).

The contact number is listed.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php/?id=100064212004229