Urgent: Need Advice - SAPS Confiscated Guns Without Consent

**kinan** · 26-02-2024, 22:52

Hello everyone,

I urgently need advice and guidance regarding a troubling situation I find myself in. About four weeks ago, I purchased eight guns from Webb's Arms in Port Elizabeth. However, due to the impending closure of Webb's Arms, I had them dealer stocked by another reputable gun shop.

To my shock and dismay, I received a call from my new gun shop informing me that the South African Police Service (SAPS) had confiscated all eight of my guns. Apparently, the previous dealer, Karen Webb, was arrested, leading to the confiscation of firearms associated with her shop.

What's most concerning is that I was neither informed nor did I give consent for my firearms to be taken by the SAPS. Moreover, my guns had already been dealer stocked onto the new dealer's license long before Karen Webb's arrest.

I am at a loss as to what steps to take next. Has anyone experienced a similar situation or can provide advice on how to proceed? I am deeply worried about the status of my firearms and the legal implications of this confiscation.

Any guidance or support would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.

Warm regards,

**lloydb** · 27-02-2024, 04:55

Your best bet would be to either make contact with an organization called GOSA (just google them) or an attorney like Martin Hood. Good luck bud.

Originally Posted by kinan

Hello everyone,

I urgently need advice and guidance regarding a troubling situation I find myself in. About four weeks ago, I purchased eight guns from Webb's Arms in Port Elizabeth. However, due to the impending closure of Webb's Arms, I had them dealer stocked by another reputable gun shop.

To my shock and dismay, I received a call from my new gun shop informing me that the South African Police Service (SAPS) had confiscated all eight of my guns. Apparently, the previous dealer, Karen Webb, was arrested, leading to the confiscation of firearms associated with her shop.

What's most concerning is that I was neither informed nor did I give consent for my firearms to be taken by the SAPS. Moreover, my guns had already been dealer stocked onto the new dealer's license long before Karen Webb's arrest.

I am at a loss as to what steps to take next. Has anyone experienced a similar situation or can provide advice on how to proceed? I am deeply worried about the status of my firearms and the legal implications of this confiscation.

Any guidance or support would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.

Warm regards,

**Andrew Leigh** · 27-02-2024, 07:04

Some thoughts.

If there were any unlawful transactions regarding your firearms when at Webb's, then those unlawful transactions would predate the transfer and make the dealer transfer to the new dealer invalid. The closure and subsequent arrest of the owner may well point to unlawful criminal activity in the shop and or by the arrested owner.

I am assuming said firearms are fully paid for? You may yet find out that you were sold lemons ahead of her shop closure / pending arrest. A common trait when businesses are in trouble is to sell stuff of cheap to raise cash for the owners. I hope for your sake that this is not the case and that the firearms are indeed legally still your property. It is looking increasingly as if that is not the case.

Why not just seek clarification from the police. It may simply be a question to the police asking why your particular firearms were confiscated. I think the police set about confiscating everything while they try sort out the dealer register and the legality of the all the transactions.

**kinan** · 27-02-2024, 07:19

Originally Posted by lloydb

Your best bet would be to either make contact with an organization called GOSA (just google them) or an attorney like Martin Hood. Good luck bud.

GOSA was my first go to but unfortunately they can't help

**kinan** · 27-02-2024, 07:24

Yes, the firearms are fully paid for and in good condition. The detective mentioned that he was brought in to assist with the case, and all he knows is that they are going for ballistic testing. Unfortunately, he didn't provide any time frames or further details.

**Andrew Leigh** · 27-02-2024, 07:32

Originally Posted by kinan

Yes, the firearms are fully paid for and in good condition. The detective mentioned that he was brought in to assist with the case, and all he knows is that they are going for ballistic testing. Unfortunately, he didn't provide any time frames or further details.

So they suspect that some of the firearms she was dealing with were involved on criminal activities.

I would continue with the process of licensing. If anything is suspect with your firearms you can prove that they were not in your possession prior to a certain date. While the police are investigating let the CFR do their thing. If flagged at the CFR then they will stop the process. What do you have to lose?

**Desperatezulu** · 27-02-2024, 08:54

Ballistic testing (where it really happens...) is part of the standard protocol for SAPS when taking guns into their possession. I wouldn't read too much into that. Just a convenient crutch for them to delay any access to the firearms, assuming you have due cause.

As has been said already, you need a lawyer asap - either to defend your claim to ownership or to join the creditors' list and try to recover your monies from the seller of the firearms (it sounds a lot like they've gone into liquidation). I can vouch for Martin Hood but there are others around that are proficient in the firearms space.

Given that you apparently do not have licenses for said firearms, your battle against the cops sounds like an uphill one IMHO. That's likely the reason why you heard nothing from SAPS about the seizure of the guns - as far as SAPS and the licensing paper-trail goes, SAPS don't see you as the owner. Which may actually be a good thing if the weapons have some question marks over their provenance.
Your commercial/civil claim to ownership by demonstrating an invoice with serial numbers and proof of payment is not something the cops will be too sympathetic towards. Good luck!

**Andrew Leigh** · 27-02-2024, 09:06

Originally Posted by Desperatezulu

Ballistic testing (where it really happens...) is part of the standard protocol for SAPS when taking guns into their possession. I wouldn't read too much into that. Just a convenient crutch for them to delay any access to the firearms, assuming you have due cause.

I was not aware of that but makes a bunch of sense.

As has been said already, you need a lawyer asap - either to defend your claim to ownership or to join the creditors' list and try to recover your monies from the seller of the firearms (it sounds a lot like they've gone into liquidation). I can vouch for Martin Hood but there are others around that are proficient in the firearms space.

Get a quote first, this could cost you more than the value of the guns.

Given that you apparently do not have licenses for said firearms, your battle against the cops sounds like an uphill one IMHO. That's likely the reason why you heard nothing from SAPS about the seizure of the guns - as far as SAPS and the licensing paper-trail goes, SAPS don't see you as the owner. Which may actually be a good thing if the weapons have some question marks over their provenance.

Yip another good point. The definite difference between owner and licensee.

Your commercial/civil claim to ownership by demonstrating an invoice with serial numbers and proof of payment is not something the cops will be too sympathetic towards. Good luck!

Indeed good luck. Have yet to see creditors get a decent deal in any liquidation. You are not a preferent creditor so stand in line.

**ady** · 27-02-2024, 09:13

Seen as you have been in contact with the investigating officers, my next step would be to get hold of Martin Hood and go from there, to see what options you have available to you and then proceed.