Urgent: Need Advice - SAPS Confiscated Guns Without Consent

[GAZZAMCK]

Wait my bad, seems it was 10 glocks

[Paul]

This is a purely commercial dispute. The guns could be cars or TV sets.

Sorry for your troubles.

[Trundle]

About four weeks ago, I purchased eight guns from Webb's Arms in Port Elizabeth. However, due to the impending closure of Webb's Arms, I had them dealer stocked by another reputable gun shop.

A rapid purchase of multiple FA's and a swift move of said FA's from a dealer under scrutiny.
Seems like you knew there may have been issues prior.

[Andrew Leigh]

A rapid purchase of multiple FA's and a swift move of said FA's from a dealer under scrutiny.
Seems like you knew there may have been issues prior.

Perhaps not, the OP speaks of "impending closure" as if it was a natural event rather than "impending liquidation" hopefully at the time the former was the case. If I knew a company was closing, I would also want the stock transferred out ASAP.

If the OP knew of the liquidation and had the firearms transferred with this knowledge, then it is a risky deal at best. Moving assets during a liquidation, not authorised by the liquidator, is a recipe for police intervention.

I hope the OP gets resolution.

[Zuku]

https://www.algoafm.co.za/local/gq-f...plies-for-bail

The Gqeberha firearms dealer charged with the theft of ten 9mm Glock pistols launched her bid for bail in the Magistrates Court on Monday. Karen Webb, 47, owns Webb's Arms & Indoor Shooting Range in Walmer.

The state alleges that she's linked to the theft of ten firearms that went missing from the Aquila Arms’ stock while the cache was stored at her premises. She also faces charges of conspiracy to smuggle firearms for criminal entities and the negligent loss of firearms. According to police, her arrest forms part of an ongoing investigation into how firearms got into the possession of gangsters in the city's northern areas and other provinces.

Webb's attorney, Dries Breytenbach told the court that her business in Walmer is currently closed as she did not renew her lease, but she still has a license to trade in terms of the Firearms Act. Breytenbach said the owner of Aquila Arms, Chris Evans, had stored firearms at his client's premises, without giving her an inventory list of the guns. She denied ever having a key to access the storage facility that Evans had rented. According to the defence the ten Glock pistols that are alleged to have been stolen, were given to Webb in lieu of payment for rental storage fees.

Webb, who has no previous convictions, thinks that the charge of conspiracy to smuggle firearms, allegedly for criminal entities, was "vague to say the least". Placing her personal circumstances before the court, Breytenbach said she was the primary caregiver of her minor child and that she looked after her mother who had a stroke.

She does not pose a flight risk, will not interfere with state witnesses, will not endanger the public safety, and is willing to hand in her passport and other travel documents, the defence submitted. Breytenbach further said Webb has no access to any evidentiary material and that her continued incarceration is causing her to suffer financially. State advocate Liezel Landman asked the court for a postponement to verify Webb's profiles. Landman also needed time to study the information presented to the court by the defence.

The State is opposing bail.

The case was remanded to 21 February.

[Enigma_ZA]

Seems a hellva lot more than 10 Firearms....

https://www.algoafm.co.za/local/io-c...b-bail-hearing

IO comes guns blazing at Karen Webb bail hearing

Damning evidence of how more than 70 firearms that went missing from Webbs Arms in Gqeberha had made their way into the hands of dangerous criminals was presented during the bail hearing of firearms dealer Karen Webb, in the city's Magistrates Court on Wednesday. Webb, 47, has been charged with the theft of ten 9mm Glock pistols that went missing from the Aquila Arms’ stock while the cache was stored at her premises.
Her arrest on 8 February forms part of an ongoing police investigation into how firearms got into the possession of gangsters in the city's northern areas and other provinces.
Besides the 76 firearms that had been positively linked to crimes in the city's northern areas and as far as the Western Cape and Gauteng, the court also heard that 437 of the 900 firearms registered on Webbs Arms are unaccounted for.
According to the investigating officer, Detective Sergeant Juan Botha's statement, Webb had moved firearms from her business premises shortly before her arrest.
Police traced the firearms to a storage facility in Sedgefield and determined that only 500 firearms belonging to her were stored, and without the relevant paperwork to support the transfer.
According to Botha's statement, the owner of Aquila Arms, Chris Evans, ran into financial difficulty in 2019.
After he was evicted from his shop he made arrangements for his firearms to be stored, at among others, Webb Arms.
Webb and Evans concluded a lease agreement on 1 November 2019 and his cache was stored in the main safe.
The court heard that some of the consignment had to be moved to a second safe on the premises after an inspection by police found that the main safe was too full.
The value of Aquila Arms' stock stored at Webb Arms at one point amounted to R3m.
In unpacking the alleged theft of the ten 9mm Glock pistols, Botha said in his statement that Evans had already sold the pistols to Magnum in 2019.
During the time it was stored at Webb Arms, Evans was awaiting the documentation to be finalised before handing the pistols over to the new owner.

He laid a charge of theft against Webb after an employee noticed that the Glocks were no longer in the safe.

It is further alleged that Webb had sold off seven of the ten "stolen" Glocks to other parties, while three remain unaccounted for.
Evans denies transferring the ownership of the alleged stolen guns to Webb, in lieu of outstanding payment for storage fees, stating that he had sold it prior to the date of storage at her facility.
Webb claims that she did not have the keys to Evans' second safe, but he says he handed her one in compliance with fire safety hazards.
Further allegations of how Webb allegedly sold a R4 rifle without the complainant's consent, and how more weapons than what is mentioned in the charge sheet, are at play were also mentioned.
Botha said that should Webb be released on bail, the likelihood exists that she can put firepower back into the hands of criminals.
He is of the opinion that she is a flight risk, especially since has a boyfriend who lives in America, and said she could interfere with state witnesses.
The investigation officer added that Webb never handed over her cell phone as part of the investigation and never divulged where the missing guns were.
He said people in Gqeberha were living in constant fear due to violent shooting incidents.
The bail hearing continues on Thursday.

[oafpatroll]

"Botha said that should Webb be released on bail, the likelihood exists that she can put firepower back into the hands of criminals."

We do know how SAPS hates competition from crims in lines of business like supplying skelms with guns so this is likely a major concern ;-)

[A-R]

...
Botha said that should Webb be released on bail, the likelihood exists that she can put firepower back into the hands of criminals.
...

So these guns were actually taken away from criminals? The mind boggles...

[Zuku]

So these guns were actually taken away from criminals? The mind boggles...

Rather stockpiling to get the supply line up and running again!

[kinan]

A rapid purchase of multiple FA's and a swift move of said FA's from a dealer under scrutiny.
Seems like you knew there may have been issues prior.

No we did not know anything was wrong alot of people bought guns because the prices were low and the shop was closing down so they had a clearance sale.

The detectives told me they taking all firearms even ones that were licnesed since 2022 everything must get tested.