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Thread: .458 Express

  1. #21
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    The bolt face can be opened up, just make sure that it is a competent big bore Gunsmith.
    I know a guy who sold his Lott and built a Rigby on a 602 action.
    He advised me to fire one before thinking of a 450 as the recoil is much more than a Lott. He said he should have stayed with the Lott
    A roaring Lion kills no game

  2. #22
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    Quote Originally Posted by 458Exp View Post
    I have a 375, 416 and 458 …. Now it’s 500 Jeff time …. That why question ?
    Because it’s lekker and life is to short to wonder should I or shouldn’t I
    You are such a delicate little creature Rudi that the recoil is bearable - NOT!

  3. #23
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    I know of a 450 Rigby that was built on a 602 boldface is fine but gunsmith opened up the rails too much and now there is a lot of feeding issues with that rifle.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Wells View Post
    You are such a delicate little creature Rudi that the recoil is bearable - NOT!
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Wells View Post
    You are such a delicate little creature Rudi that the recoil is bearable - NOT!
    I think a .510 570gr at 2200-2250 fps should be most enjoyable, but live changing for someone that’s not recoil fit.

    .510 570gr next to a .458 500gr


    458 Express next to a 500 Jeffery

  5. #25
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    Agreed.

  6. #26

    Default Re: .458 Express

    Hello everybody,

    Lots of thoughts lots of considerations, even more possibilities.

    Bolt face and "rails" or "magazine lips" are definitely a big issue. My Heym .416 feeds 10% reliably upside up, upside down, tilted any way, bolt operated slowly like in super slow motion or worked in a serious hurry. That was really very reassuring.

    I own one rifle,a .300 Win Mag on a K98 action, a one off by a good gunsmith, which has problems sometimes, when the magazine is packed full to it's capacity and then I sharply pull the bolt back; sometimes more than one cartridge comes up. Now, we do not want that here.

    So a ZKK 602 in 458 Win Mag converted to .458 Lott should be without problems - at least I think so. The .458 Express would just be the next step with minimal necessary changes to all involved components. and now I hear about the problems with the brass. (§%&K)..

    As it looks now I tend to favour the .458 Lott.

    Apart from these considerations I have always believed that the shooter should not be more afraid of his rifle than of the animal to be stopped.

    I once tried a .505 Gibbs on an older Brno action and that thing nearly shook the fillings out of my teeth. The rifle was maybe a bit on the light side and the stock design had a lot of drop - no pleasure at all. Especially if you think at the actual application and how long you take for target reacquisition.

    So I want to still chat to a few people from the trade and will let you know, which way I will be going.

    Please feel free to feed me more opinions and experiences. I thank you for all your valuable thoughts

    Cheers, B.W.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    Is the ZKK602 requirement because of nostalgia?

  8. #28
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    When converting a 458 WM to a Lott, the Gunsmith should do some polishing to ensure flawless feeding. Its minor work though.

    The Express is a Long round and requires a True Magnum action, of which a ZKK602 or CZ550 is the mostly likely to be found.
    A roaring Lion kills no game

  9. #29
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    Default Re: .458 Express

    Quote Originally Posted by bwana wali View Post
    Can the ZKK 602's bolt face be modified to accept a .450 Rigby?
    Is the .450 Rigby the same case as the .416 only necked up ?
    If there are two positive answers, this could really be a possibility.
    I do have heaps of once fired .416 Rigby Federal cases and a good hundred of unfired Norma .416 Rigby cases.
    .....madness takes it's toll ....
    I haven't seen an answer/reply to this yet, so here goes... Yes, the 450 Rigby is the same parent case as the 416 Rigby. Just necked up and obviously different shoulder dimensions. But the brass can be resized and used interchangeably.

    If you want a pretty thorough overview of the Express, look up the chapter on it in Pierre Vd Walts 'Dangerous Game Cartridges' book.

    My 2c on the topic - I am struggling to decipher what you're really after?
    1. Is it a 458 calibre or just a big bore?
    2. If 458 cal, is it a minimum velocity you're seeking? (after all the only difference at the business end of a 458 WM/Lott/Express/ 450 Rigby/460 weatherby et al is the muzzle velocity)
    3. Do you want a minimum mag capacity?
    4. Is it component availability (in essence brass because bullets, powders and primers are going to be much of a muchness across the different 458 flavours)
    5. Do you have a donor gun/action that you're intending to use, which adds certain constraints?

    I get that reliable feeding is a non-negotiable, as it should be, but all of these calibres are proven in Mauser/CRF actions, so it's a case of gunsmith fine-tuning - not a debate over which calibre will or won't feed.

    As best I can tell from this thread, the 458 Express tickles some curiosity but in reality ain't helluva practical because it's a wildcat and donor brass availability is becoming increasingly scarce.
    A 450 Rigby would appear to make way more sense as it is a factory round, with dies and brass readily available - plus you have donor brass stocks in hand already. The Rigby has the slight downside of probably lower mag capacity because of the fat case but the Brno/CZ magnum action will hold 4 rounds and possibly 5 with some gunsmith tweaking so I don't know that the Express is much different. The other differences (powder capacity, MV etc) are all rather negligible when it comes to choosing between the two.

  10. #30

    Default Re: .458 Express

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperatezulu View Post
    I haven't seen an answer/reply to this yet, so here goes... Yes, the 450 Rigby is the same parent case as the 416 Rigby. Just necked up and obviously different shoulder dimensions. But the brass can be resized and used interchangeably.

    If you want a pretty thorough overview of the Express, look up the chapter on it in Pierre Vd Walts 'Dangerous Game Cartridges' book.

    My 2c on the topic - I am struggling to decipher what you're really after?
    1. Is it a 458 calibre or just a big bore?
    2. If 458 cal, is it a minimum velocity you're seeking? (after all the only difference at the business end of a 458 WM/Lott/Express/ 450 Rigby/460 weatherby et al is the muzzle velocity)
    3. Do you want a minimum mag capacity?
    4. Is it component availability (in essence brass because bullets, powders and primers are going to be much of a muchness across the different 458 flavours)
    5. Do you have a donor gun/action that you're intending to use, which adds certain constraints?

    I get that reliable feeding is a non-negotiable, as it should be, but all of these calibres are proven in Mauser/CRF actions, so it's a case of gunsmith fine-tuning - not a debate over which calibre will or won't feed.

    As best I can tell from this thread, the 458 Express tickles some curiosity but in reality ain't helluva practical because it's a wildcat and donor brass availability is becoming increasingly scarce.
    A 450 Rigby would appear to make way more sense as it is a factory round, with dies and brass readily available - plus you have donor brass stocks in hand already. The Rigby has the slight downside of probably lower mag capacity because of the fat case but the Brno/CZ magnum action will hold 4 rounds and possibly 5 with some gunsmith tweaking so I don't know that the Express is much different. The other differences (powder capacity, MV etc) are all rather negligible when it comes to choosing between the two.

    This is now a very good reply, thank you Desperatezulu.

    Ad 1.: As I said above, there is a ZKK 602 rifle available in .458 Win Mag. at a good price. Some other small hiccoughs are there too, which have to be solved separaretly.
    Ad 2.: I want to have the 2150 -2200 fps threshold within easy reach, possibly be able to also shoot heavyer bullets.
    Ad 3.: With my ZKK 602 in .375 HH and the Heym in .416 Rigby I am spoilt for magazine capazity. I do want to have a minimum of four in the magazine, with the possibility of even putting one additional into chamber.
    Ad 4.: I do have quite a few once fired .37 HH shells.
    ad 5.:See above. It is an old clients rifle, which would have to be imported from EU.

    Ad feeding: Once you find out the rifle is not feeding 100% reliably - even if you do it at home by working some new cartridges through the drill - it is too late because the rails had been filed away or whatnot and lengthening the proverbial table leg is a pain.

    The .450 Rigby-thought entered my mind, as I did mention, but that brings a lot of gunsmithing which can lead to much more of it.

    If anybody has experience in importing a second hand rifle, please let me know.

    Cheers, BW

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