Are we too Americanized?

[stefanvan]

Ok,
I'm going to get abused for this...

I read G-farmer's thread & it convinced me to start this thread to get it in the open & other opinions...
I suspect that we’ve got the monkey by the tail regarding calibers & velocities…
The way I understood caliber & MV for different types of hunting was easy:
Karoo, small game= small quick cal.
Karoo, large game = large quick cal.
Bosveld= large slow cal.
Recently I went to Hornady’s site to look something up & there it was! SuPerformance ammo, Quicker-Lighter-Better! Or is it?
Is a light bullet designed for long range? Somehow I feel that’s what we think.
If you had to pick one of two bullets for shooting 500m with a .243, a 58gr V-max or a 105grA-max, what would you select?
I started to look at ballistic coefficients and other factors.
In short, a .243 58gr V-max buller has a Bc of 0.250 and a 105gr A-max has Bc of 0.500
Ok, that’s numbers that does not say much… next people will say but a 105 is slow thus not a long range bullet. True it will have a slower MV. But what’s going on at the 500m impact area?
Some numbers:
58Gr V-max, MV=3500fps rifle zero on 250m:
@500m:
Velocity=1594.5fps
Drop=112.8cm
Time of Flight=0.695sec
105gr A-max, MV=3100fps rifle zero on 250m:
@500m:
Velocity=2126fps
Drop=96cm
Time of Flight=0.639sec
What does this say?
Not much in trajectory, in fact the 105 drops less!! Retains more velocity and would do less damage on your biltong.
To me the important thing is that I save my barrel-throat! High MV-Light bullets tend to burn your barrel quicker.
What do you guys say?
Regards
SvN

[Sweet]

Hi Stephan

I agree with your logic and the conclusion that there is actually not much in it. That comment also goes for those splitting hairs over the .270, 7mm and 30cals like the 308Win - there is very little diffs between these when you start playing with a ballistic calculator, IMO.

Fast barrel burners that thump the shoulder (not refering to the 243 in your thread - but rather to the tendency in the "mine is faster than yours" brigade) are a solution to a non-existant problem

Sweet

[ikor]

First, let us clarify something about the Hornady Superformance ammunition. It does NOT use lighter bullets to give the velicity gains. It uses a new line of powders recently developed, that allow increased velocities with the same bullet weights / chamber pressures as before. Thus with THAT specific ammo you will not be sacrificing weight at all. Still, bullet performance will, no doubt, be effected.

That, I know, is not the point of your question(s), and you may very well have a good point about meat loss, depending on how much you care if more or less meat gets spoiled from the bullet. I no longer hunt, nor do I wish to, but I used to, and I have many friends here in the states who do...some very seriously.

Several of them never eat much, if any, of what they kill, instead donating it to local jails, or children's homes, etc. I do not know, and have never known a single one who made biltong or jerky from the animals they killed...it is just not popular here in the eastern US. Thus meat loss issues seldom are a big deal to American hunters, especially those in the 'lower 48'...even those who do use and est the meat they kill. While true that some Alaskans do subsidize their meat supply each year via hunting, they are relatively few in number.

In my area, it is perfectly possible to legally kill two antered deer a day for the entire 86 day season if a hunter wants to do that, so the loss of some meat here and there is not an issue. It is, in fact, much cheaper to buy meat at the store than hunt it if that is all one is really after.

In SA it is different for the guys who DO care about meat loss, and I understand that, thus my agreement...partially at least...that while I think some American products are better, I also do not believe ALL of them are, and even those that are need to be assessed by hunters in light of what each individual wants to gain and / or is willing to give up. JMO

[THOMAST]

Must also add that the heavier bullets will be less affected by wind when comparing bullets of similar shape.

[stefanvan]

Ikor,
I want to appologise if I offended you, I have no intent to soound negative to the US, my brother as well as many of my friends live there & I wish I could get my paws on what they have access to.... I belive that 90% of their stuff is better, but that ue apply it wrongly....
we have dual compound powder as well, S361, but face it, SuPerformance in .22-250is a 50grV-max & .243 a 58grV-max...
so by my standards onthe lighter side of the scale...
regards
Stefan

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Yes Thomast, I left that out to try keep this from really becoming a can-of0worms... but you are 100% correct...

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

Sweet, I tried to post a reply on your comment, but the black-hole of binary-code ate ir before it made it to the thread...
in short, I agree with you.
there are long range cal's & shotrer range cal's, but as a hunter, we never get to that distances...
350m is a long way for a shot on a springbok, but there, there's no watershed between 308 vs 30-06...
Only when one goes out to redicus ranges it's a factor. I have shot 400m+ kills on blesbuck using V-max in my .243, actually I love those bullets, but I think I'll do better on long range using 105gr instead of 87gr...
rgds SvN

[ikor]

No offense taken, bru! I see only 80gr and 95gr loads for the .243 Superformance ammunition...? Ahh...OK...I see now, but that is for the VMAX varmint bullet, which no one in their right mind uses for meat hunting large animals anyway.

[stefanvan]

Yep, that's my point,
People want to use a lighter bullet to shoot further, so they use a hammer to install a screw...
V-max's awesome for dispatching meercats etc on medium range, not hunting at long range...

[ikor]

See what you mean now

[farmer-el]

Most calibre/bullet weight combinatons have there place. Development of new calibres/bullet weights/ammo also leads to sales that before would not have existed. In America types of shooting/hunting have developed along with the change in calibres. Someone at our club was stalking about prairie dig shooting (I think that what he said). Anyway they were small buggers shot from God knows how many metres. Our hunting has hardly changed from when the voortekkers left the Cape. My garnadfather used to hunt Bushbuck in this area with a shotgun. I hear this debate often down her. Alot of it is an ego thing....my gun is faster/flatter etc. In reality most of us could get away using calibres and ammo as it was produced 50 years ago.

[stefanvan]

Mmmm, I'm disappointed in how realistic you guys are...
I was hoping for a bit of sparks from boys compensating for a small-willy with a big-fast-gun...
Confession.. I'm a slut for a 338Lapua, I have to own one one day...