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  1. #1
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    Default Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    2 weeks ago I submitted a further competency application for Self loading rifle/carbine with the unit standard certificate "Handle and use of a self loading rifle or carbine".

    My DFO phones me today to say that there is no such unit standard, only "Use of a Rifle" or "Use of Hand Machine Carbine", and I must go back to the training provider and have the certificate changed.

    So what now?? Is it possible to license a LM on the old unit standards and competency certificate?

    I know it was discussed earlier and the thought was that you needed to do the new unit standard but now I don’t know, also do we have any clarity regarding applying for competency and licensing at the same time??

    My ADSL is off at home so I'll follow any advice given on by email update to my phone.
    Last edited by morneg; 06-12-2010 at 15:26.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    My LM6 was licenced on the old Use of Rifle standard. Your DFO is a retard. There is no Use of HMC anymore.

    I suggest that you try contacting someone in your provincial office to give your DFO the good news.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    The SASSETA Certificate reads: Handle and use of a self loading rifle or carbine: Unit Standard :119650
    Did you hand in the Training Provider Cert or the SASSETA Cert ?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    Here are the relevant unit standards:

    Handle and Use a Handgun (SAQA Unit Standard 119649)
    Handle and Use a Shotgun (SAQA Unit Standard 119652)
    Handle and Use a Manually Operated Rifle or Carbine (SAQA Unit Standard 119651)
    Handle and Use a Self-loading Rifle or Carbine (SAQA Unit Standard 119650)

    Tell your DFO to catch a wake up.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by cerop View Post
    Here are the relevant unit standards:

    Handle and Use a Handgun (SAQA Unit Standard 119649)
    Handle and Use a Shotgun (SAQA Unit Standard 119652)
    Handle and Use a Manually Operated Rifle or Carbine (SAQA Unit Standard 119651)
    Handle and Use a Self-loading Rifle or Carbine (SAQA Unit Standard 119650)
    Just to add, AFAIK in order to be enrolled for any of those 4 categories one needs to have completed a once-off unit standard 117705 (Demonstrate knowledge of the Firearms Control Act).

    The unit standards 10748 (Use of a Handgun), 10750 (Use of a Rifle) and 10754 (Use of a Shotgun) are "older" standards which I believe have been superceded by the new standards.

    Again I think your DFO should have known better, a bit disappointing to hear conflicting stories from our trusted officials.

    Musa

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    Spoke to the call centre last night, actually quite a strange experience to be able to phone a government department at night. They’re also of the opinion that the local DFO is a retard.

    Took with a printout of the unity standards with this morning and after drawing some pictures it seems that they understand that “Use of a self-loading rifle/carbine” has replaced “Use of a HMK”. Apparently the problem is with the person doing the QC and the fact that the “system” has not been changed to the new unit standards.
    Thanx for the comments

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    My LM6 was licenced on the old Use of Rifle standard. Your DFO is a retard. There is no Use of HMC anymore.

    I suggest that you try contacting someone in your provincial office to give your DFO the good news.
    Necro post, I know.

    However, I've just had my MSR application and appeal refused because my competency was issued under the old unit standard. AFAIK this is total bullshit. Surely there has to be some recourse, seeing as I complied fully with the stipulated requirement outlined in the FCA 2000, back in 2006/2007. Now keep in mind that I've previously had 4 MSR's licenses approved and issued under the same rifle competency.

    Any advice on what to do here? I'm SICK and fuckn tired of CFR's incompetence, apathy and plain fuckn stupidity.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Musa View Post
    The unit standards 10748 (Use of a Handgun), 10750 (Use of a Rifle) and 10754 (Use of a Shotgun) are "older" standards which I believe have been superceded by the new standards.
    This....
    Go to this link [https://allqs.saqa.org.za/showUnitSt...php?id=119651] ,
    scroll down to "
    UNIT STANDARD NOTES
    This unit standard replaces unit standard 10750, "Use of a rifle", Level 4, 10 credits. "

    Print page an take to DFO?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JhbBoy View Post
    This....
    Go to this link [https://allqs.saqa.org.za/showUnitSt...php?id=119651] ,
    scroll down to "
    UNIT STANDARD NOTES
    This unit standard replaces unit standard 10750, "Use of a rifle", Level 4, 10 credits. "

    Print page an take to DFO?
    I quote a previous post: " SAPS Directive dated 26-02-2010 - An 3 page explanation on the lapsing of competency Certificates and the use of "old training certificates" ie. previous Unit Standards. Quoting only selective paragraphs & my highlights:
    The training certificates obtained for the undermentioned unit standards are
    acceptable so long as they were issued up to 31 December 2007:
    10748: Use of Handgun
    10754: Use of Shotgun
    10756: Use of Hand Machine Carbine
    10750: Use of Rifle
    The above unit standards reflect the only unit standards applicable during the period 1 July 2004 to 31 December 2007 for the purpose of undergoing the prescribed training."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Rifle, Carbine or Self loading Rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisvw View Post
    The SASSETA Certificate reads: Handle and use of a self loading rifle or carbine: Unit Standard :119650
    Did you hand in the Training Provider Cert or the SASSETA Cert ?
    This is wrong...should read "
    119651 Handle and use a manually operated rifle or carbine

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