Pointing of firearm crime V2

DS · 30-05-2011, 07:41

The Appeals Court gives a very wide interpretation to the crime of pointing of a firearm.

This from Beeld 30 May 2011 iro of a judgement on Friday 27 May ,and my free translation from Afrikaans, so it would most probably be prudent to get to read the reported case.

In a nut shell:

Pointing of a firearm is a crime....

with a loaded or unloaded firearm

even if the firearm is is in fact not capable of being fired (?)

and it does not matter that the firearm is pointed in a direction that indicates that the bullet would have missed the "victim" had the firearm in fact been fired.

**Paul** · 30-05-2011, 08:00

So... it's, in fact, any indication that you have a firearm on you that can be interpreted as 'pointing'?

**Corné** · 30-05-2011, 08:11

This remains a problem. That is why it is important to keep concealed as best as possible and be able to identify correctly the time when you can and when you can't point.

The problem is that there are 'cowboys' out there that point to make a statement and to intimidate and this is causing problems. I agree that the pointing of an firearm is against all that is decent if there is no just cause for it. The trick is to identify the "Just Cause" when it would be legal and that basically boils sown to a situation when it would be just to shoot.

**Skurk777** · 30-05-2011, 08:19

In line with what we discussed on the case in America and the other example that was given of the lady that tucked her gun under her leg in her car when the car guard threatened her and he saw the firearm.

**Paul** · 30-05-2011, 08:30

Seems the interpretation 'some' courts give to this is along the lines of the British law's definition of 'menacing'... a very wide and entirely subjective measure. Makes it critical to always be the first to lay a charge with the SAPS after an incident.

**Skaaphaas** · 30-05-2011, 08:36

It is much the same crime as common assault, which I believe would be the alternative charge to pointing of a firearm. Assault can be committed without ever touching the complainant. The mere threat of violence, while the victim believes you to be able to commit that violence, constitutes assault. The drawing of your firearm, even when pointed at the ground, may constitute assault.

So yes, be sure that you are acting in such a way as to avoid violence to yourself, and lay that charge at the SAPS.

**Lian** · 30-05-2011, 09:24

Originally Posted by Paul

So... it's, in fact, any indication that you have a firearm on you that can be interpreted as 'pointing'?

that's pretty much sounds like it.
if a cop pulls you over at a roadblock, and you indicate (move jacket) that you are carrying.... it can be seen/charged as "pointing".

brilliant.

**farmer-el** · 30-05-2011, 18:02

Thanks for the post Khumba. This is something I've never understood and unfortunatley this judgement to some extent leaves the water murky. Scenario...I'm on a farm. My alarm is tripped and I see movement at my chicken runs. I go out with a shotgun - out of a bag - and guys are helping themselves to chickens. They see me and the gun and run. I fire no shots, but suddenly may find myself on the wrong side of the law. I understand the concept of firing a gun when your LIFE is in danger and also how a firearm produced at the wrong time can escelate a situation. I also know there are times when, and types of "criminals" who will escelate a situation when they don't see a firearm. Groups of four/five, normally intoxicated people there for a few birds, one sheep etc who will see the fact that you are unarmed (gun concealed) as a weakness and attack resulting in having to shoot/fire your weapon. Judges are educated people and are there to judge. Surely the situation needs to be judged on who "pointed" the firearm - victor or aggressor - especially when the firearm is not pointed specifically at a person, but is being carried.

**Davidc** · 30-05-2011, 21:38

Maybe we should lay charges evertime we see a cash in transit guard strolling into a busy shopping centre with his Dashprod or when the SAPS stop at KFC for lunch?

**Gidsie** · 30-05-2011, 22:34

SAPS members disembarking from their vehicles with R6 in hand.. just walk in at your local station...
How could the SAPS not be judged for pointing as well?
Lots to be sayed about "how" that paragraph should be interpreted...