Yesterday's handguns, Shooting the old school 9mm's.

[Craig]

A couple week-ends ago, we went down to our local range with a few old school pistols and a couple boxes of ammo to see if these pre-plastic dinosaurs could still be serious self defence contenders. Well, actually we just went to have some fun, but I needed a valid excuse to get away for the day, and this was it! The pistols we brought along were all devised in the years when petrol was cheaper than coke, MacGyver was my hero and only woman marvelled over each other’s Tupperware! Three of the firearms were serious worldwide military and police contenders, and the other was a Smith, they were a Beretta 92FS, Sig P226, FN Browning Hi-Power and a Smith and Wesson 6906.

We set up a basic 5 target range, and fired various strings from both 7 & 10 meters before settling on 7 meters for some aimed and rapid fire sequences. It was a hot day on the range, with a slight breeze, enough for me to use as an excuse, but not enough for the others to believe me. The firearms were all stock standard and PMP ball was used for most the day, with a few S & B rounds and some various old rounds that needed to be used up.

So how did they fair?

First up was the Browning, I’d shot this particular pistol before and really liked it. The sights were the typical old Browning ones, which were fine when I was shooting groups, but I thought I would battle when taking quick shots, turns out I didn’t and I enjoyed and felt competent with every round that I put down range with this little beauty. I always found the grip comfortable on these and the grip angle and ‘pointability’ seem just right. This old single action was just as I remembered, point, aim, squeeze and hit, that easy.



One of my groups with the Browning

Next up was the Beretta, I'd never shot a Beretta 92FS before, but had a fair bit of experience with the Z88 and Beretta 92, both of which I enjoyed and had been pretty competent with, in my own way that is. The 92FS felt lighter than I remembered and the grip size didn’t seem to worry me as much, but it has been quite a few years since I last played with either the Z or 92. I was feeling confident until I started putting bullets down range, I was all over the target to start with and it took a couple mag’s before the groups began to tighten. I really wanted to like this pistol as I’ve always wanted this variant, but it didn’t impress me as much as I would have liked. I managed decent groups in the end, and quick double tap shooting at 4 targets was acceptable.



The Beretta 92FS.



My best group with the Beretta.

Then came the Sig, one of my favourite firearms, but how would it compare to the others. First off, I really like the way it feels in my hands, it just feels right and the balance seems perfect. The recoil seems extra mild even with its high bore axis, and the sweet trigger fills you with confidence. How did it fair, well to be honest, not as well in my hands as I would have liked, my groups were ok, not my best, but my rapid fire stings were as good as I was going to achieve with any gun that day. If I were going to the range for some fun, I’d take this everyday of the week, it’s a fun, easy shooting guns that always puts a smile on my face.



Me and the Sig P226.



And the Sig again.

And then came the Smith. I’d never actually played with a Smith pistol before now and had never heard anything good about them until the M & P recently came onto the scene. This one was the 6906 model, a compact 9mm with 13 round mag, a comfortable grip, nicely balanced and the best standard sights of the day, being Novaks. After my first few mag’s I stopped to see if the barrel was bent, I was really battling to get decent groups, but as I got used to the gun and its trigger, I became really impressed. Aimed groups with this were the tightest of my day, even with the shorter barrel and sight radius and only the rapid strings seemed to suffer a bit, but no worse than the Beretta. In fact, the Smith achieved what we considered the tightest group of the day, in which a five shot group was covered by one ISPC patch from 7m.



Me and the Smith 6906.



My best group of the day.



My fathers group with the Smith.

So what did we actually achieve, nothing really, but we had a great day out with good company and I got to shoot some awesome firearms.
I, unfortunately, was least impressed with the Beretta, I really like this gun, but it just didn’t work as well for me as I would have liked. The Sig, well, it’s my favourite range gun, it’s the one I went back to time and time again for all the reasons listed above. The Browning was the old faith full, and the one that I could pick up and put holes just about exactly where I wanted them, within reason. But, and I must admit, the one I was most impressed with was the Smith & Wesson 6096, initially I battled but eventually I achieved my best group of the day with this little gun and it’s fun to shoot too. So should a little Smith come along, I’d definitely take a closer look.

I’m not a competitive shooter and put very few rounds down range each year at present, but I make the most of it when I can so this is purely based on my opinions and abilities. Would anyone go out and buy one of these guns over the newer plastic models as a self defence firearm, I’m not sure, but they still seem to be serious contenders and all functioned flawlessly with no malfunctions of any kind throughout the day. I’m still backing the plastic’s as carry guns, with their internal safeties and the simplicity that this provides, but master the safety on one of these and they’ll protect you to.

Over and out.

And so Andy, what was your take on our outing?

[KK20]

where are the CZ75 and Star B' s

i enjoyed your post and was very impressed with the SW . i dont own any SW auto maybe i should give it another look at.

i own several GP35's , the SIG 226 and a Z88 and Beretta 92 . i enjoyed reading your experiences with them.
i strongly agree with your GP35 as being what i experienced. the SIG 226 is for me a VERY accurate pistol tight groupings and placement where i want.

i have this passion and love for the Z88 , i love its feel , its looks and its balance BUT I JUST CANNOT SHOOT IT AS WELL AS ALL MY OTHER NINES.

i can go from GP35 to CZ 75/85 to SIG 266 to G17 to HK USP and shoot well but the transition to Z88 take me a few shots to adjust grip and fingers and thumb etc to eventually get shot right.

the other thing i noticed that the GP35 and SIG 226 like 124gn best while CZ like 147gn best

and my safariland large pistol paddle holster handles all of them nicely

[andy_760901]

Thanks Craig, and may I just say a very well written article, I can’t top it so ill not try…

Yip Craig and I hit it again, with his dad (who is a really cool dad – mine hates guns)…

I enjoyed the day and had a red neck to show for it. Apart from the good company the shoot was most enjoyable as it allowed me the opportunity to shoot Craig’s Sig Sauer P226, which I have until that day, not had the pleasure of shooting, and that’s exactly what it was an absolute pleasure. Thanks to another member on this forum (you know who you are) I will have the ability to compare my latest acquisition (Sig PRO SP2009) against the venerable P226.

Let me begin with the Sig P226 as this was by far the winner for me on the day. All I can say is that the Sig is like Goldie lock’s third bowl of porridge, juuuuust right ;)

What do I mean by that, well the P226 trigger guard is squared off quite prominently, this suits my support hand finger curved round the front of the trigger guard, and compliments to the chef on the trigger, the first shot I did not even intend to drop the hammer and BANG, a most pleasant surprise as the trigger is crisp and has what I would think to be the softest trigger release I have ever fired on a Factory pistol, Which has not seen the attention of a really good Smithy. All guns were stock-standard.



Andy and the Sig P226

The Sig, like Craig suggests, just seems to effortlessly soak up that recoil and there is an insignificant amount of muzzle flip despite the known high bore axis. All of a sudden I find myself in the market for one of these amazing firearms; I would rate it as one of the best I have shot, bar none. The group that this gun allowed me to shoot was more so a tribute to the firearm then it was to my squint eye. In closing this was my definite favorite and allowed me to shoot the tightest group of all, bearing in mind that this was new to me and not like my Smith 6906 which I have sent many a round down range in an effort to tighten groups. The Sig for me is a winner and has turned me into a Sig Poster board, ill shout its good points from here on, and I think it is especially the P226, as I have owned and shot a P228, it was not as refined as the P226 and lacked the squared off trigger guard, and the trigger most snipers dream of, let alone colt single action shot-ists… I really hope that my soon to arrive Sig PRO is even half as good as this, if it is then ill be one HAPPY HAPPY camper.



My group with the Sig

I have done a fair amount of shooting with the Beretta 92FS lately and have come to know the weapon better then most others, and I shot relatively well with it, I know that it is an old design, but I can not help but like the gun, I own three Beretta 92 models, the 92, 92SB and the 92SB-F as well as a new Z88 (a copy there-of) which I rate very highly as well. And I will buy the compact soon as well as another 92Fs for my collection, needless to say I just cant seem to get enough of these guns, I love the look and feel and I tend to shoot well with this gun, not as good as the Sig, but I must admit that the Sig is as near to a utopia as I think ill find in a handgun for now… I have included pic of a group with the Beretta. In all I would not feel inadequately armed with one of these although the gun is a little on the heavy side, what can I say; I’m a die hard fan.



The Beretta 92FS



The Beretta's group

The Browning was amazing to me, as old John Moses knew his stuff, after all this time the Browning High Power Gp35 can hold its own against the younger contenders, a grandfather amongst the young bulls, it shot every bit as tightly and handled every bit as well as the other contenders, and I for one am impressed, its only “downfall” in my eyes that it being single action, which limits your carry options, but no problem as one can carry cocked and locked, the only nit I can pick is a bi-product of the only other thing I dislike, yes the Safety, the fact that the Browning is single action, means that either the operator of the weapon should carry it either chamber empty or cocked and locked, I would carry this weapon cocked and locked, my problem with the weapon as I had given privy to, is the poor safety lever, it is as small as a ants penis, this is a major consideration, as to carry the Browning as a serious defensive handgun, I would advocate cocked and locked, and cocked and locked is none to fast if you cant unlock after your lightning fast presentation from the holster… So I would have to have that looked at if I were to carry one, as I sit here, I have just purchased an original genuine Browning Sport, this is the model with the high post front sight, and the adjustable target rear sight, I have long since looked for one of these and when one came up in the drawer of my local gun shop it called to me like a virgin on prom night, looking so devilishly sexy, I had to take her home.



My group with the Browning

I intend to mount a Novak snag free back sight to the gun and it will be a serious piece of hard ware, the sights on the normal Browning although brilliant for slow fire target type shooting, are no good for quick reactive shooting, and the sport model fixes this.

It seems like i’m knocking the Browning when in actual fact I am humming its praises, I enjoyed this gun only second to the Sig, I really enjoyed it, and it is every bit as good as the other, Bar the Sig who is a god amongst the other mere mortal weapons shot on the day.

Lastly we have my little shooter, the Smith & Wesson 6906, truth be told I was wanting the aggressively squared off trigger guard model on the 6906 as per its predecessor, the 669/469. If I find one for sale ill still buy, be it a squared off trigger guard in a 6906/ 3913/669 or 469. I have had ample opportunity to shoot my 6906 and love it dearly, it is amongst the favorites of all my pistols, I love its two tone silver and grey slide/ frame, and its lines are classic to me, it has never jammed or failed to feed on me in all the rounds I have spat downrange, I love this gun and the groups achieved by Craig and Robert (Craig’s dad) showed this. The trigger leaves much to be desired as there is a significant amount of creep, but once you familiarize yourself with this trigger your good to go, but it is far from ideal. Below is a group I shot with this pistol.



In closing, I enjoyed the good company and the guns which we put through their paces, all as Craig said were 100% reliable, this was by no means a torture test or anything of that nature, but I have never experienced and failures as Craig and his dad vouched for on the other firearms, so yes, they seem to work flawlessly ;) which is more then I can say for my aiming.

In closing I will echo Craig’s sentiment, would I pick one of these over a poly gun, probably not, does it make them any less capable then a poly gun, a resounding NO.

[abhm]

Great article guys really enjoyed reading that

[vaughan]

yes thanks guys, enjoyed it aswell! keep em coming 8)

[Count Bla]

Love the hat...

[BigT]

The 226 really is a sweet pistol. The 3rd gen Smiths seem to be pistols that just don't get the respect they deserve.

[andy_760901]

The 226 really is a sweet pistol. The 3rd gen Smiths seem to be pistols that just don't get the respect they deserve.

+ 1,000,000 I think that this may be, in part that the smith & Wesson 3rd Generation pistols were not entered into the military trials as the 3rd generation was not fully completed and Smith did not want to release the 3rd Gen guns until they were 100%, thus they missed the cut off date to submit their entry, perhaps some that are none the wiser may think that they were not good enough to be entered or considered ???

Im unsure, just a thought... I thinkt hat the S&W pistols would have been a good contender in the running, i believe it was Beretta and Sig that were neck and neck, where Beretta won on bid and spare parts availability, but on the condition that Beretta open a factory in the good ol US of A.

Please fell free to correct me if im wrong here. And yes the Sig is a sweet little pistola... happy0065 hpy180 lv29 grn1 fighting0002 fighting0035

[ikor]

Problem with the S&W pistols, up to and including the 3rd generation in military service is that they have always had to have parts hand fitted to one degree or another. The very latest ones (dare I call them 4th generation?) have resolved that issue to a larger degree, but it is a moot point now that the M&P has arrived. I have never been a big fan of the older S&W design because they always pointed like a quart milk bottle for me, but I must admit that the 3rd generation guns do work well. In today's market they are a very under rated value in a used pistol., especially in the states where S&W will happily honor their lifetime guarantee. The M&P now, I like.

IIRC had Sig won the military trials they had struck a deal with the company that was building the M60 machinegun at the time to be the US builder. any and all foreign companies seriously considered for final bids would have had to have a factory in the US. Beretta sold the 92F and later the FS to the military on that contract for around $180 each with spares. A commercial 92F was over $350. Beretta actually lost a tiny amount on that contract but more than made it up in other contracts (the G model for the French Police for instance) and commercial sales. That's their story anyhow.

[KK20]

the reagan admin at the time wanted to base ICBM on italian soil.
the italian govt had some objection but then beretta got the contract which was lucrative indeed and then usa got the ICBM placed on italian soil.

thats how the cookie crumbled on that one