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  1. #1

    Default SAPS Special Task Force

    Good day everyone

    My name is Johan and I also am a Collector.

    Can anyone please help me with more info on the types of small arms used by the SAPS STF? I could confirm a few, but info is relatively scarce. Shotguns especially are hard to identify and differentiate on videos and pictures. BTW, I have a couple of links to YouTube videos on the STF is anyone is interested.

    Regards,

  2. #2
    Craig's Avatar
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    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    Hi Johan

    Welcome on board. I have seen a 3 part documentary on them that was filmed by a UK TV Channel a few years back. I'm not sure on all, but from memory the following were used.

    FN FAL and FN FAL Para
    HK MP5
    R5
    AR15 (but only saw this in the training section, not on duty)
    Accuracy International Arctic Warfare 7.62
    HK USP

    Not sure on the others.

    Please drop in the You Tubes links, they will definitely be of interest.

    Craig
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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  3. #3
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    Shotguns are the Republic arms RA12(I think). The Beretta copy issued to the rest of the service.

    I understand that they have a couple truvelo .300wm and .308s too.

    The USPs are in .40. Eliminators issued I believe.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    Hi guys

    Thanks for your help. The STF is one of my collecting themes.

    What I have so far includes:

    FN FAL fixed & FN FAL Folding stock
    HK MP5A3
    R5
    AR15
    Uzi
    Mini-Uzi
    FN HP
    HK USP
    AI (though I was not sure which model)
    R3 (G3) - in one of the You Tube videos it was identified as a FAL, but it looks more like a G3 to me. Might be wrong.
    Franchi SPAS 12 ? (unconfirmed) Again identified in one of the videos - I might be wrong.
    LMG's - probably our own SS-77 GPMG and / or Mini-SS LMG

    I will post the links to the videos under "General Firearms Discussions".

    If anyone can help me to correct or add to my list, or help identify from the videos, it will be much appreciated.

    Regards,

    Johan

  5. #5

    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    SAPS calls the FN with folding stock and shortened barrel the R3. Folding stock with standard barrel, the R2.

  6. #6
    Member abhm's Avatar
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    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    hi All
    like any other SF unit the STF uses the weapons it needs for the task. If they needed a spitball gun they would get it.
    as a general issue its H&K USP sidearm, the rest of the weapons are to task be they MP5's, R5's, R1'sUzi's etc
    also use are more esoteric weapons such.50 cal precision distance weapons, tthey also have access to support weapons on certain tasks.

    The police armoury used to be a beautiful place ;D I hope it still is

    Just a point of fact the military uses the R1, 2 and 3 denominations to describe the various types of FN FAL the police being populated by sensible policemen and women ;D usually just refer to it as a FN with a shortened barrel or for what ever the type might be.
    :police: rule!
    I am studying an awesome brand of leg fighting which was inspired by dung beetles and I think my brand of Kraft Manure is superior to all other styles ever invented. Furthermore I challenge all other manurists to a rolling contest where we shall establish whose manure ball is the biggest! I shall call it Honest Kraft Manure and declare it superior to all other brands of manure and will tell you that I have claimed the lineage directly to Imshi the great Dragon Kru Master Beetler who invented manuring, by gathering all manure from different animals together and making it work as the worlds most effective fertilizer. I proved myself by being members of not one but three super elite special gardening departments who were responsible for spreading manure to combat weed infestations!

  7. #7

    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    Hi guys,

    Thanks for all the help. I am a big fan of the SAPS STF, and I have heard that they were (I hope still is) considered one of the best such teams in the world, especially with regards to training, but unfortunately not always with regard to equipment. BTW it seems that it is a fact that the STF and other units did test some of Truvelo's sniper rifles, but it couldn't be confirmed at this stage if it was adopted or not.

    Can anyone please assist me with the folowing:

    As far as I know:

    The R1 was the FN FAL as we know it, either with fixed or folding stock;
    The R3 it seems either was the HK G3 and / or a shortened version of the FAL with a folding stock;

    What exactly was the R2? Some sources say the R2 was a semi-auto version of the R1 intended for the Commando's while another source says the R2 was supposed to be a bolt-action version of the R1 manufactured by Musgrave. Apparently only 10 was made.

    Thanks,

    Regards

    Johan




  8. #8
    Member abhm's Avatar
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    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    After a call to a mate who is a taakie the 50 cal's that they use are McMillans

    No the R designation is all FN type but the police will simply call it an R1 or FN with a shortened barrel or folding stock or whatever, am sitting with an old armoury hound right now and the Police never called them R2's or R3's the HK G3 is just called a G3 in both police and mil version, Most of the stocks we had were/ are ex Portuguese from Moz and Angola and a significant portion went to SWATF and SWAPOL
    R1's were mostly (it felt) used in the police for PT (my shoulders still hurt) ;D
    In the then SWA G3's were issued to the SWAPOL college and used for basic training and the OHG but most of the SAPS COIN and Koevoet Units used R1 (fixed or with folding stocks and shortened barrels) and R5 and of course captured AK's very few G3's

    Yes the STF have all types of weapons in the training wing (as do some of the advanced training centres such as Jakkalsdans etc) this is because they need to train on all types of weapons (as any special forces units would)

    The STF guys are still very highly rated but its a major misnomer to say well they are as good as the regiment but worse than GSG 9 or ODA or Team 6 or whoever, there is no definitive competion which allows rankings anymore and also their training is so similiar and there is so much cross training so extensive its much of a muchness and a major proportion is down to task specific differences so anyone who can catergorically state which Special Forces unit is better than another in terms of some mythical ranking structure does not know what he /she is talking about.


    I am studying an awesome brand of leg fighting which was inspired by dung beetles and I think my brand of Kraft Manure is superior to all other styles ever invented. Furthermore I challenge all other manurists to a rolling contest where we shall establish whose manure ball is the biggest! I shall call it Honest Kraft Manure and declare it superior to all other brands of manure and will tell you that I have claimed the lineage directly to Imshi the great Dragon Kru Master Beetler who invented manuring, by gathering all manure from different animals together and making it work as the worlds most effective fertilizer. I proved myself by being members of not one but three super elite special gardening departments who were responsible for spreading manure to combat weed infestations!

  9. #9

    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    SAPS TERMINOLOGY AS PER STORES:

    R1 - FIXED STOCK (WOOD OR PLASTIC) AND STANDARD BARREL(SEMI OR FULL, WITH OR WITHOUT GRENADE SIGHTS)

    R2 - FOLDING STOCK AND STANDARD LENGTH BARREL(ONLY SAW THESE WITH FULL AUTO CAPABILLITY)

    R3 - FOLDING STOCK AND SHORTNED BARREL (PARA MODEL TO THE LEARNED FEW)(ONLY SAW THESE WITH FULL AUTO CAPABILLITY)

    G3 - CALLED A G3

    FN FAL SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT


    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS WITHIN THE POLICE:
    SOME MEMBERS CALLED THE LOCALLY MADE OR BELGIUM MADE RIFLES FN's OR R1 IRRESPECTIVE OF THE MODEL AS THEY INCORRECTLY WILL CALL THE WALTHER P38 OR THE B92 THE PARRABELLUM AND NOT BY THE MANUFACTERES NAME NOR MODEL. WALTHER HMC's OR STANDARD UZI's OR MINI uZI's WERE CALLED HMC's BY THE ILL INFORMED AS WELL.

    ONE MUST REALIZE THAT THE AVERAGE POLICEMAN SEES A FIREARM AS A TOOL OR AN INCONVINIENCE TO CARRY AROUND AND THESE DETAILS ARE UNIMPORTANT TO THEM.

  10. #10
    Member abhm's Avatar
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    Default Re: SAPS Special Task Force

    unless OPSEC or Classifeid please scan and upload that stores slip PARA.

    I have never heard a police member refer to his/ her sidearm as a parrebellum I used to be in the police and spouse, family and close friends still are. Most police members refer to their sidearm as Z (zed)

    You run a lot for misnaming your sidearm or any weapon for that matter.

    Correct most FN types were simply referred to as R1 or FN depending on the back ground of that member (bear in mind we are talking slang or idiom here not official terminology).

    Common misconception most police members realize that their sidearms are meant to be a survival tool and not an inconvenience!

    An Uzi was an Uzi never a HMK!

    My time in the police never saw a mini Uzi outside of the armoury or training wing, only folding or fixed stock variants.

    Also bear in mind many police members spend a fair amount of time in court, these details ARE important to them.


    I am studying an awesome brand of leg fighting which was inspired by dung beetles and I think my brand of Kraft Manure is superior to all other styles ever invented. Furthermore I challenge all other manurists to a rolling contest where we shall establish whose manure ball is the biggest! I shall call it Honest Kraft Manure and declare it superior to all other brands of manure and will tell you that I have claimed the lineage directly to Imshi the great Dragon Kru Master Beetler who invented manuring, by gathering all manure from different animals together and making it work as the worlds most effective fertilizer. I proved myself by being members of not one but three super elite special gardening departments who were responsible for spreading manure to combat weed infestations!

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