Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 56
  1. #1
    Moderator ikor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Age
    74
    Posts
    8,806

    Default Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    Loading and unloading the pistol are ‘administrative’ tasks…by that I mean we have all the time in the world to get it done right. I have, however, noticed that not all that many shooters perform these tasks correctly and / or safely in spite of the fact that a great many seem to believe they do. Note, please, that we are not speaking of reloading the pistol, which is a different thing entirely.

    UNLOADING
    Since the only safe assumption we can make upon picking up a pistol that we have not ourselves cleared and that has not, for any reason, left our direct control, is that it is loaded, the first step in unloading is to point the pistol in a safe direction. Now on a range, or in a location with a clearing barrel, etc. the safe direction is clearly defined, but that is not always the case elsewhere.

    We handle guns out in the real world too. Where is a safe direction in your own home? At a crime scene should a Policeman need to secure a weapon? At a friend’s house? For real world gun handling purposes, we define a ‘safe’ direction as any direction in which, if the weapon were to somehow discharge, only minor property damage and NO HUMAN INJURY would take place.

    This will also, obviously, depend on what gun is being handled, since a hunting rifle, etc. is likely to penetrate far more and be capable of causing damage / injury through some materials that would stop a handgun bullet. Still, we do not point the pistol at other people, our child’s bedroom wall, the new flat / wide screen telly, Farmer Brown’s prize heifer, or our favorite dog…ever…good habits are as easy as bad ones to build.

    Once pointed in a safe direction, drop the magazine completely free of the pistol and place it in a pocket, on a table, etc. out of and away from your hands. Now, with finger OFF the trigger and muzzle still pointed in a safe direction, smartly pull the slide completely to the rear, allowing the ejected cartridge (if any) to fall free onto the deck. Do not try to catch the cartridge…do not try and manipulate the weapon so it falls out in your hand…let it fall free. If it bothers to see it strike the deck and you can, place a towel, blanket, jacket or such where the cartridge will land. If in a group, let no one bend over to collect the ejected rounds until everyone is empty and all weapons holstered! And a line of new shooters WILL want to do that, since each is concerned about his / her own cartridge and for all our lives we have habitually and immediately picked up things we dropped.

    The reason we do not try and catch the round is simple…once in a while, a cartridge can fire while being unloaded from a chamber…Glocks are particularly prone to this in 9mm due to the sharp and bent-inwards ejector, but all autopistols can do it…and if it happens with your hand over the open ejection port it will not be pretty. I personally know three shooters…two cops and one civilian (very experienced Bullseye shooter) all of whom have permanent hand injuries from this happening. One with a 9mm Glock, one with a Beretta 92F in 9mm and the civilian with a 1911 .45 that did NOT have an extended ejector.

    I do not care how many times you may have done this without an injury, it can and does happen from time to time and is well documented. If you think you will be lucky forever, keep doing it…just not on my range. If not, now might be a good time to unlearn a bad habit. I do not know of a single reputable program that teaches this, mostly because at some point a student has injured themselves by doing it.

    Once the chambered round has been cleared, we lock the slide to the rear and look inside. If we have no light and need to check, we insert a finger into the mag well area and also into the end of the chamber…not likely to be the case under most circumstances. Only after such verification do we consider the gun ‘empty’ and completely unloaded. If the pistol leaves your immediate control…not just your sight but your control, meaning if you hand it to someone else, even within your vision…check it again before you consider it empty.

    LOADING
    Loading is also done while the pistol is pointed in a safe direction. Insert a loaded magazine and smartly pull the slide to the rear and let it go forward under its’ own power. Do not try to ease it forward or help it…just let it go. And yes, I prefer pulling the slide back even if the slide is locked rearward when the loading process is initiated as opposed to using the slide catch. If you have light, watch the round feed up into the chamber.

    At this point, any other manipulations may be done, such as locking the 1911 thumb safety ‘on safe’, decocking the Sig pistols, etc. and…on the range…the weapon holstered. Once in the holster, the magazine may be withdrawn from the holstered pistol and topped off (brought back to fully loaded condition) if desired.

    I teach holstering first because in a range environment I prefer the guns be secured as quickly as reasonably possible, and because you will need two hands to load that extra round into the magazine. Some use a second, fully loaded mag to exchange for the one initially placed in the pistol and then top off the first mag later, which is fine but I still prefer the pistol be holstered while this is done.

    When you reinsert the magazine, make sure it locks into place and give it a little tug to be sure, then leave it alone. Fiddling with it serves no purpose and may create problems. Do not play ‘grab azz’ with your buddies and try to sneak up and trip their mag release…this is not funny and at worst could be potentially lethal should he leave the range or station house with the gun in that condition.

    When using an IWB concealed carry holster such as the CompTac MTAC, etc. it may be necessary to top off before holstering because getting to the mag catch and magazine is a mission, and if this is done I do prefer a second, fully loaded magazine be used and the initial magazine topped off later.

    Topping off is also not always advised depending on the specific gun and magazines used as some fully loaded magazines will put an awful lot of pressure on the bottom of the slide. For instance, my G19 has bobbled a few times with 15+1 and wimpy WW white box range ammo, so I do not top off any of my Glock 9mm magazines because of this. The one Glock .40 I own does not seem to have issues and so I do top it off. (13+1 / G23) As far as I know, the FBI still teaches that their agents should never top off a magazine in their issued pistols, so different people and agencies will have different procedures.

    The one thing we never do is to open the slide, drop a loaded round into the chamber, and then either close the slide manually or let it slam closed! This can create several problems, among them chipping and bending of extractors, and I have seen at least three old (fixed) Sig P220 extractors broken because of this technique. It can also create bullet ‘set back’ in the chambered round, which can cause malfunctions or maybe even kabooms. The gun was designed to load from a magazine…load it that way.

    Everyone’s home or work situation is different and you must adapt the fact that you are carrying a pistol to your circumstances, but in general, there is no need to be constantly loading and unloading the gun. It is very hard on your ammunition, and IMO actually less safe than simply placing the loaded pistol in a secure safe, locked drawer or other location where unauthorized persons (kids especially) cannot get to it. Ever see a gun just ‘go off’ sitting in a safe with no human attached to it? Thought not.This is also another reason why in-home carry makes sense.

    Constant unloading and loading can also result in bullet setback…a very bad thing, indeed…as well as in sensitized or desensitized primers. Various factory ammunition is all over the place with bullet setback. Some ammunition will do it worse than others, and some guns seem more prone to it than others. Old WW Silvertip .45acp used to be very bad about it, and today many .40 caliber pistols are prone to it.

    This is doubly spooky in .40 as virtually all duty type .40 caliber loads are loaded to max pressures. And even the tiniest bit of setback can result in a blown gun. Hirtenberger in Austria did some testing with factory .40 rounds and found that 1/10in setback would double pressures from 35,000 PSI to 70,000 PSI…well over proof load pressures. I know how difficult it is to find good carry ammo in SA, but for serious use, two trips into and out of the chamber and you should toss that round into the practice ammo box.

    If you are tempted to go beyond the ‘two times’ rule of thumb, be sure to check OAL against other rounds from the same lot / box on a regular basis…or maybe take a good look at those whose lives just might hang on that round performing correctly in extremis and ask yourself if a few Rand is worth that chance.

    I had planned to include chamber checking here, but I have decided to do a separate post on that because I think it is that important.

    Stay Safe!
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

  2. #2
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    my heart at the sea and my soul in the mountains
    Posts
    14,330

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    Eye opener



    Thank you.

    ---------- Post added at 07:10 ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 ----------

    Eye opener



    Thank you.
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  3. #3
    User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Age
    46
    Posts
    29,307

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    Good stuff.

    I teach and recommend downloading all double stack mags by one round. Makes seating a mag on a closed slide far easier and reduces the amount of pressure exerted on the slide by the top round. Makes me feel better if I need to start blasting away with my weak hand while pissing blood from the strong arm.

  4. #4
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    my heart at the sea and my soul in the mountains
    Posts
    14,330

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    "Once the chambered round has been cleared, we lock the slide to the rear and look inside. If we have no light and need to check, we insert a finger into the mag well area and also into the end of the chamber…not likely to be the case under most circumstances. Only after such verification do we consider the gun ‘empty’ and completely unloaded. If the pistol leaves your immediate control…not just your sight but your control, meaning if you hand it to someone else, even within your vision…check it again before you consider it empty."

    Dean Niewoudt, made a comment that made the chaps laugh but ingrained this safety aspect. - after fondling , we must put finger in the hole!


    HAHAHA no will forget that now
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    "The reason we do not try and catch the round is simple…once in a while, a cartridge can fire while being unloaded from a chamber…Glocks are particularly prone to this in 9mm due to the sharp and bent-inwards ejector, but all autopistols can do it…and if it happens with your hand over the open ejection port it will not be pretty. I personally know three shooters…two cops and one civilian (very experienced Bullseye shooter) all of whom have permanent hand injuries from this happening. One with a 9mm Glock, one with a Beretta 92F in 9mm and the civilian with a 1911 .45 that did NOT have an extended ejector."

    Now that I didn't know, or even contemplate. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

    ---------- Post added at 15:40 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------

    "The reason we do not try and catch the round is simple…once in a while, a cartridge can fire while being unloaded from a chamber…Glocks are particularly prone to this in 9mm due to the sharp and bent-inwards ejector, but all autopistols can do it…and if it happens with your hand over the open ejection port it will not be pretty. I personally know three shooters…two cops and one civilian (very experienced Bullseye shooter) all of whom have permanent hand injuries from this happening. One with a 9mm Glock, one with a Beretta 92F in 9mm and the civilian with a 1911 .45 that did NOT have an extended ejector."

    Now that I didn't know, or even contemplate. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

  6. #6
    User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    4,141

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    I try and avoid loading\unloading, but if it must be done I do "ease" the round into the chamber. I assume this will reduce the incidence of bullet setback. When loading at the line, I pop in a magazine and go for it. That round will only be chambered once.

    The other thing I do is to ask permission from a dealer, etc when loading and unloading. "Can I unholster and unload? I am about to load, is this OK"? Other than this, pretty much what I do now. Great post. Did not know about the possibility of detonation when unloading!

  7. #7
    User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    /\/¯¯¯¯¯\/\
    Age
    43
    Posts
    10,754

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    found that 1/10in setback would double pressures from 35,000 PSI to 70,000 PSI
    WOW! no room for error at all.

  8. #8
    User
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Garden Route
    Posts
    3,708

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    Great info, thanks ikor. Learn things every day.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    Thanx good read, couple of things to think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by ikor View Post
    The reason we do not try and catch the round is simple…once in a while, a cartridge can fire while being unloaded from a chamber…
    The only part of shooting that still makes me cringe each time i have to do it on the line. I don't want to jinx anybody or myself but i fear the day a round is dropped with a unload & show clear & by some miserable bad luck it hits the ground primer first & fires...

  10. #10
    Moderator ikor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Age
    74
    Posts
    8,806

    Default Re: Unloading and Loading the pistol...

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBoyTazz4Ever View Post
    Thanx good read, couple of things to think about...



    The only part of shooting that still makes me cringe each time i have to do it on the line. I don't want to jinx anybody or myself but i fear the day a round is dropped with a unload & show clear & by some miserable bad luck it hits the ground primer first & fires...
    Seen the results of that happening exactly once. Some of our Vice cops were getting ready for a warrant servicein the paved parking lot and one dropped a factory round while loading up a spare mag. Scared He** out of them but no damage at all. The uncontained cartridge can'r get much velocity up for the bullet to do damage (although I suppose it might put out an eye if no safety glasses were being used). Ask the pro firefighters and they will tell you they don't worry about ammo in house fires because the cases almost always rupture sideways and the bullets go almost nowhere.

    Problem with the unload is that the cartridge is partially contained and in very close proximity to the hand. It is the ruptured brass and not the bullet that is most dangerous in that case.
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 22 cal. muzzle loading ,black powder,Pistol/Folder ACW
    By stefan albert in forum Custom Knives
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-09-2014, 20:35
  2. Pictoral on loading a Muzzle loading shotgun.
    By mic in forum Black Powder and Muzzle Loading
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 21-06-2010, 20:04

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •