Gun Facts

[Anwar]

Ok, the best way to fight the anti gunners is with facts.
I found the following website, although it deals with the American market, the info is still usefull.

http://www.gunfacts.info/index.html

My thinking is that we can use this document for our own SA purpose since it is sourcing from the reliable. If only we had this info available in SA. But you'll find all anti gunners use the same arguments the world over and so we can use the same facts.
I would have attached the document, but it is 700KB in size.

[Martin Hedington]

Ok, the best way to fight the anti gunners is with facts. I found the following website, although it deals with the American market, the info is still usefull. http://www.gunfacts.info/index.html> My thinking is that we can use this document for our own SA purpose since it is sourcing from the reliable. If only we had this info available in SA. But you'll find all anti gunners use the same arguments the world over and so we can use the same facts. I would have attached the document, but it is 700KB in size.

Nice, been reading it for years now but there is a local version too <www.gunfacts.co.za> The author was on here for a short while but then got himself booted by an admin for some unexplained reason.

Oh no, excuse the hell outa me, like 'Crimefree', he's just been re-invited again. Good choice/ Wise decision (s).

In common cause brethren,

Martin_tu

[92FS]

Gun Facts South Africa did a great job in hijacking the GFSA.co.za domain, (Go Google it) as appose to Gun Free SA with GFSA.org.za.

While good thinking in the beginning and doing a splendid job, it now seems to have run out of steam.

I even sent the Administrator a PM asking about the status of the site, but it seems to have gone into a black void. (Martin et al, no pun intended!)

With so many of these sites which came to be around the 2003/04 time, it seems the main reason was a knee jerk reaction to the implementation of the amorphous FCA 60/2000.

There is a need to bring everybody together with a common cause. That cause should be similar to what most of the US gun sites are lobbying for - resist the blanket removal of personal fire arms procured by legal process.

I cringe when I read about FA Organisations pruning members lists, and others sitting on proclaimed unused funds. This indicates to me and I'm sure any right thinking individual with the gut fear of losing his FA's in the future, that there is something wrong. Why are these cracks now showing just at the time that the first cycle of re-licensing is theoretically completed?

It's time to elevate this "grumbling and mutter, mutter process" of us to a higher level - BUT - its going to call for leadership, innovation, organisation, relinquish of personal agendas and ultimately some sacrifice.

However, remember this is not the USA, with a 2nd, although increasingly under pressure, it is SA with a poor FCA 60/2000. We tend to read US gun sites and because it it is in a common spoken language we start to identify with the US way of thinking, but it is not! We only share a common urge for sharing the same passion.

Uhm, ...... I think I have just hjk !!!!!

Apologies for doing so - I'll crawl back into my foxhole.

[Martin Hedington]

Gun Facts South Africa did a great job in hijacking the GFSA.co.za domain, (Go Google it) as appose to Gun Free SA with GFSA.org.za. While good thinking in the beginning and doing a splendid job, it now seems to have run out of steam. I even sent the Administrator a PM asking about the status of the site, but it seems to have gone into a black void. (Martin et al, no pun intended!). With so many of these sites which came to be around the 2003/04 time, it seems the main reason was a knee jerk reaction to the implementation of the amorphous FCA 60/2000.

Well lets leave it to the owner/Admin to reply to that one I think, (yes, he's reading your post as we speak, LOL!). And no, I dont think you've hijacked this thread at all, the title is Gunfacts and thats the content too.

There is a need to bring everybody together with a common cause. That cause should be similar to what most of the US gun sites are lobbying for - resist the blanket removal of personal firearms (one word) procured by legal process.

The first sentence is I think a given, but the fact that there are in excess of 90 million, (and probably a LOT more now, LOL!) legal Gunowners in the States but about the same amount of 'following' across the board -from that huge number- indicates to me they have the same problem as us, apathy, and a general feeling that 'someone else will do something'.

Thing is, over there they are a lot more pro-active in raising funding for the 'seasoned few' and 'qualified many' that are competant, hardegat (sp?) -enough (and rewarded enough; in the case of Attorneys!), to keep the pressure on the government to keep their filthy hands off our (perfectly innocent) guns.

Not unlike Life Assurance, (which I was in for five years, a long time ago), the benefits have to be 'sold' to the public on a person-to-person basis, its very rarely bought.

I cringe when I read about FA Organisations pruning members lists, and others sitting on proclaimed unused funds. This indicates to me and I'm sure any right thinking individual with the gut fear of losing his FA's in the future, that there is something wrong. Why are these cracks now showing just at the time that the first cycle of re-licensing is theoretically completed?

'Pruning' is firstly a natural process, (or like a tree it can get out of hand), then secondly its a task that is decided on by the owner/ Moderator(s), as one sees right here also, by deleted, or so called 'uneccesary' threads, LOL! *tips hat to Mods*).

It's time to elevate this "grumbling and mutter, mutter process" of us to a higher level - BUT - its going to call for leadership, innovation, organisation, relinquish of personal agendas and ultimately some sacrifice.

Yeah, You volunteering yourself? ROFLMAO! (But seriously folks) Actually I think thats been done by a few, Hood tried (maybe weakly) back in '04 with his attempt to get the FCA on hold in his 'urgent application' but the judge that was to hear it got swapped round an hour B4 the hearing for one not so 'gun friendly'. He was -I heard unceremoniously- tossed out of court, apparently for not preparing properly. But that stories not verified.

However, remember this is not the USA, with a 2nd, although increasingly under pressure, it is SA with a poor FCA 60/2000. We tend to read US gun sites and because it it is in a common spoken language we start to identify with the US way of thinking, but it is not! We only share a common urge for sharing the same passion.

Actually, we did have -probably the closest thing to a 2nd amendment- in the Treaty of Vereeniging. Ther it is clearly stated that the _Right_ is outlined. Go read it for yourself; http://cusd.chico.k12.ca.us/~bsilva/...ereeniging.htm where you'll see that the Brits -even in Victory nogal- "and that rifles (read GUNS, ~M_tu) would be available by license to those who needed them for protection" Note WOULD BE, not "might be if we decide to" which is what the FCA, (read SAPS) is doing.

back into my foxhole.

No No No, get back out of that foxhole fella, stand your ground and spray-and-pray buddy! LOL! Getting into foxholes isn't gonna help any of us. See the way I see it is that on forums like this, we have a veritable seedbed of potential emmisaries, all probably willing to spread the Good Word about the many benefits of Private Firearm Ownership. Yeah I know there's a lot of 'lurkers' around, (my post on the John Welch phenomenon on the GOSA Forum proves that; "Well if he's not relicensing"). But you have to realise that every lurker knows people, and those people know people and so on, get my drift.

If that saying about 'if one person tells two others, the whole world would hear about it within three days' is probably quite close to true, with the internet much more so than ever before. But even if a person isn't online, he (or she) will have a social life, will have business associates, will talk to other people in the course of his day, so with well over a thousand people on here reading whats happening, (Mods permitting, LOL!), the truth -about private Firearm ownership- WILL OUT!

True, there are only -unfortunately- a few that will actually do what some of us do regularly, write to the papers, (or rather Email) when you read about something thats total B,,,,,ks in the media, or see a News item thats skief, or a script in a local sitcom thats obviously been crafted to be Anti-Gun but given that ('research shows' - a favourite of the Gunfree's, LOL!) that over fifty thousand people will read any criticism of an item published, we accept that thats enough 'mileage' to keep the flag flying. Of course we'd like everyone with a Gun (of any decription) to be doing a lot more but lets get real, it ain't gonna happen. So you work with what you can.

Fortunately / unfortunately for me, (depending on how you view it, LOL), what I've chosen to work with for the time being is reviving the spirit of the Black Gun Owner, with our mass-actions still fresh in most peoples minds, we really grabbed CFR by the curlies didn't we? Sure we took some flak, phones tapped, vehicles followed, mail intercepted, even death threats but what the hell, you only live once hey? LOL!

Thing is, I think there's a fair chance that we'll go the same way again as we did last time, that is, a bloody sight more whiteys 'supporting' (read paying members) -us than BGO's, (yeah really). I reckon its worth a shot, (as they say), hell if it isn't, I'll let you all know once I get my ADSL-connection sorted out from Pretoria Central, OK? (heh heh heh).

In Common Cause Brothers! MOLON LABE!
(or in modern terms, come and get them, Mother....rs!)

Martin_tu @ BGOASA.
011 972 0010
074 125 6938 (an anagram of 6 shot, 9 mill, 38 special. Now thats 'Gun Nuttery' 4 U).