NGA 60gr 9mm Eliminators

**Brendank** · 13-04-2009, 13:05

Hi all,

I know Eliminators and NGA famous QC issues have been discussed in the past, however I was wondering,
has anyone used/carried/shot the 60gr 'Blue Cap' Elmintors/Sentry's?

They are very hot, loaded to around 1850FPS from a 4" barrel.
I had a older lot, quality was good and accuracy as well from my Star Firestar Plus.

Thoughts (apart from 60gr being too light!)?

**acidblood** · 13-04-2009, 13:42

Hi Brendank,

I have a couple different eliminators and they all work great - depending on the situation & usage...

When I use to carry a 9mm I had some FMJ, premium hollow points & eliminators combined.... With the .40 I carry it's a combination of FMJ & premium hollow points - still contemplating what else I want to add...

For a carry gun, I preferred the heavier point. I think it was in the region of 96-110gr or so... I have to go check if you want the exact amount...

Depends what you want to do and on the given situation. The round has high velocity but lacks a bit in penetration because of the light weight point. So generally I would only use this round in close combat situations, over a distance or through objects I don't believe it will be efficient round. And in real life you don't have rounds to waste - each one should count.

I don't use eliminators in my carry gun at all anymore as I don't believe they give me the best advantage. I regard them effective at =<5m beyond that I don't think its really causing major tissue damage or trama or results in effective penetration. I've done a couple tests of my own, on ballistics gel, and I wasn't impressed with the performance. So much that I felt safer without it loaded. I use high quality JHP...

Perhaps have a look at:
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/gold_dot_prsnl.aspx
http://www.gunsite.co.za/Selecting_h...f_Defence.html
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

**acidblood** · 13-04-2009, 13:47

Have a look at one of the previous threads on this site.........

http://www.gunsite.co.za/forum/index...sg9610#msg9610

**SSP** · 13-04-2009, 15:39

Originally Posted by acidblood

I regard them effective at =<5m beyond that I don't think its really causing major tissue damage or trama or results in effective penetration. I've done a couple tests of my own, on ballistics gel, and I wasn't impressed with the performance.

1. What was the velocity drop off after 5m?
2. Where did you get ballistics gel?
3. What were the exact results of your tests?

**BigT** · 13-04-2009, 15:54

Originally Posted by SSP

Originally Posted by acidblood

I regard them effective at =<5m beyond that I don't think its really causing major tissue damage or trama or results in effective penetration. I've done a couple tests of my own, on ballistics gel, and I wasn't impressed with the performance.

1. What was the velocity drop off after 5m?
2. Where did you get ballistics gel?
3. What were the exact results of your tests?

Please when supplying data also include velocity and penetration data of the calibration bb.

**BigT** · 13-04-2009, 20:36

Brendan while in general I prefer higher sectional density bullets I think these could be interesting. I would need to see testing in properly calibrated gel showing actual penetration. I fear though that they will not perform well through hard barriers and bone due to their lack of sectional density. I have seen some testing results of the .38 spl 80gr where IIRC penetration was adequate but no barriers where present.

I doubt that their low mass would make an appreciable difference at normal SD ranges.

**Brendank** · 14-04-2009, 09:16

Originally Posted by BigT

Brendan while in general I prefer higher sectional density bullets I think these could be interesting. I would need to see testing in properly calibrated gel showing actual penetration. I fear though that they will not perform well through hard barriers and bone due to their lack of sectional density. I have seen some testing results of the .38 spl 80gr where IIRC penetration was adequate but no barriers where present.

I doubt that their low mass would make an appreciable difference at normal SD ranges.

Interesting... they were designed to take on 'hard targets' like windscreen glass, car doors etc.
I fear the 60gr 9mm won't fare well on the 'harder' targets, which is what I would want them for, I have JHP's for the 'softer' targets in any event.

What I really did like about them was their velocity, 1850FPS from a 4" barrel is MOVING! I reccon they would be devestating on a close range, 'soft' target shot, as you said, provided there are no intermediate barriers present.

**acidblood** · 14-04-2009, 11:33

hpy194 SSP & BigT, I can tell your BS meter is going bonkers hey!! Well I've honestly done some tests and wasn't impressed with the ammo.

I don't have the info in a neat word document, but I do have it written down in a log book.

I will find the records and see what I can put together.... confused0083

On where I got ballistics gel.... well I mixed my own .... I'm a bit of a science nut and it's not really that hard to make - but it doesn't last long though....you have to keep it on ice when not using... Have a look on the net, there's a couple of different recepies for it - each giving you a different 'type/composition' - if I can put it that way... Some are more combursome to mix and use than others...

Interesting... they were designed to take on 'hard targets' like windscreen glass, car doors etc.
I fear the 60gr 9mm won't fare well on the 'harder' targets, which is what I would want them for, I have JHP's for the 'softer' targets in any event.

Sure I was also feeling like my ammo can take on anything until I testing eliminators at hard surfaces and got a shock! Do yourself a fav. take some stuff with you to the raneg yourself and do a test.... Remember to stand well clear & behind cover in case of ricochets.... let us know what you find....

**BigT** · 14-04-2009, 21:19

Acidblood remember if the gel isn't properly calibrated the results aren't worth much.

Brendan I don't think they really have the sectional density for impressive hard target performance. Its not only breaching the barrier that is important but how they perform in the target beyond the barrier.

**Brendank** · 17-04-2009, 10:22

Originally Posted by BigT

Acidblood remember if the gel isn't properly calibrated the results aren't worth much.

Brendan I don't think they really have the sectional density for impressive hard target performance. Its not only breaching the barrier that is important but how they perform in the target beyond the barrier.

Yeah, it seems so BigT. Pitty though, seems the 85gr 'Red Caps' don't do much better, I certainly wouldn't use them.
I managed to pick up three boxes yesterday from a deceased estate, so will keep them for testing/backup ammo.
About the only semi decent ammo available locally, wouldn't even dare touch anything made by PMP - CRAP in my books (underloaded for 9mm).