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  1. #1

    Default Thousands of police technically in the illegal possession of their firearms

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...earm-1.1195672

    Thousands of policemen and women are technically in the illegal possession of their firearms, with thousands more allegedly fraudulently declared competent in the use of their weapons.

    An investigation by the Pretoria News shows the SAPS is facing an overwhelming crisis in terms of its members' firearm competency and proficiency abilities.

    The crisis comes as the police ministry, which acknowledged certain "training problems", admitted it had only ordered SAPS management to issue members firearm permits in July.

    According to the Firearms Control Act (FCA) 2000, "an employee of an official institution may not possess a firearm under the control of the institution without a permit. issued by the head of the institute".

    The act also states an employee has to be a fit and proper person to possess a firearm and have successfully completed the prescribed training and tests for the safe use of a firearm.

    It is not known why the instructions were only issued in July.

    While Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa acknowledged certain training problems, Sasseta (the Safety and Security, Sector Education & Training Authority) says it has only issued 3 570 firearm competency certificates (FCCs) since 2004.

    Police management have rubbished the crisis and Sasseta's figures.

    National police spokesman Captain Dennis Adriao said the SAPS firearm training programme was of an exceptionally high standard with more than 55 000 police trained last year alone as part of the organisation's 2010 Legacy Project.

    National police management failed to divulge how many of the country's estimated 170 000 operational members had successfully undergone firearm competency and proficiency training or been issued with FCCs.

    An FCC is issued only once both theoretical and practical test results, undertaken by a person when applying for a gun licence, have been verified.

    Gauteng police spokesman Brigadier Neville Malila admitted that 30 percent (10 500) of the province's estimated 35 000 members still had to be declared competent.

    Although Malila said 70 percent of members were competent, the true figure is unknown as most of Gauteng's police firearm training institutes received Sasseta accreditation only last December.

    According to firearms trainers, this means those institutes which allegedly declared members competent prior to December did so illegally.

    It is not known why it took Sasseta six years to accredit these institutes.

    Police firearms trainers have slammed Malila's figures, claiming 60 percent (21 000) of Gauteng's police must still undergo the training, with 2 500 of Pretoria's estimated 6 000 officers not having done so.

    Adding to the crisis are allegations of police trainers, course examiners and moderators fraudulently passing members.

    Documents in the possession of the Pretoria News show that in a number of different theoretical classes members all received the identical mark.

    The documents also show members who are marked absent for the practical shoots being passed.

    Adding to the apparent crisis are the appalling storage conditions of members' firearm competency records.

    Photographs taken at the Pretoria police training headquarters show boxes of files lying discarded for months in a car park after they were removed from a storeroom that was being refurbished and never put back.

    The files, known as portfolios of evidence (POEs), have to be secured at all times so they cannot be tampered with before being verified by Sasseta and should there be any queries about a result. A POE, which can be used for recognition of prior learning, is proof that a member has completed the course and contains information on their knowledge of the FCA and their shooting results.

    Malila, disputing the allegations, said: "Preference in training was given to operational members to be trained first, followed by support staff.

    "Gauteng has a training programme to get all SAPS members through the firearm competency training process.

    "In the case that identified members cannot attend the training, station commanders nominate alternative members to replace them.

    "Four training centres are used. To expedite the process, in November 2010 the Pretoria training facility shooting range was also used. It was used for remedial work where members failed their practical training.

    "No shooting distances were shortened or extra rounds given (as has been alleged). This office engaged members who attended the remedial training who indicated that the allegations that distances were shortened are false.

    "No provincial instruction was given to pass or certify members competent when they are not and no official complaints were received from learners."

    Adriao said: "The SAPS firearm competency training standard is set by South African Qualifications Authority (SAQA) and we are not aware of any flaws in the unit standard.

    "These standards were researched and developed by the Standard Generating Body, a structure set up by SAQA which consisted of police, military, private security, firearm experts and consultants.

    "The standard was benchmarked according to international standards with regards to law enforcement and was also published in the Government Gazette for public participation before being approved.

    "This unit standard is higher than the private sector standard."

    Adriao said the pass rate for legal theory was 70 percent and for practical, safety and shooting a 100 percent pass rate was required.

    "The SAPS complies with and goes beyond all the requirements for firearms training and the use of accredited shooting ranges," he said.

    While Adriao said 100 percent was required for shooting, an SAPS firearm training document shows only 70 percent is required when it comes to shooting.

    A firearms trainer said: "What is going on the ground is on management's instructions.

    "They are deliberately breaking the law to meet their targets, declaring members competent when they are not. There are some police who should never have been given a gun."

    A firearm training moderator said corruption was rife when it came to firearm competency training.

    "Verbal instructions are that members must pass no matter what. We are passing them by shooting for them and giving them the answers to tests.

    "There is nothing we can do. If I fail a member someone else will pass him.

    "The SAPS shooting standard is appalling, with people unable to shoot even from 5m.

    "We are speaking because once you squeeze that trigger there is no turning back. With a gun there is no sorry."

    Martin Hood, the SA Gun Owners' Association spokesman and legal advisor, said senior officers had admitted to him that training results were being falsified.

    "I was told the required training unit standard was not being taught, there is no consistent minimum standard or quality of training, with people instead put through a 'street survival' course.

    "There are also problems with the SAPS's proficiency and competency. Proficiency ensures firearm users are trained in the operation and use of the firearm, while competency, in terms of the FCA, is a Registrar of Firearms declaration that a person is competent to possess firearms and includes a background check, criminal record check and confirmation that a person is 'fit and proper' .

    "While the police are not required to be competent because of an exemption in the act, they are required to be a fit and proper person (and to) successfully complete the prescribed training, which they are not.

    "It is clear the SAPS think they are above the law as they issue firearms without permits.

    "Why are they not complying with the law? Why are police exempting themselves from the competency requirements? No one can answer this."

    A police ministry source said: "What is happening is criminal. The cops are in a training crisis. They are expected to enforce the law yet they are not complying with the law.

    "Even if police acknowledge the problem now it will take between three to six years to sort out."

    A five-day course, consisting of:

    SAPS FIREARM COMPETENCY COURSE

    Day 1: Theoretical: knowledge of the Firearms Control Act and building of a portfolio of evidence, proof that you can handle your firearm and that you have knowledge and understanding of firearms.

    Day 2: Practical: firearm handling assessment, from taking a gun apart to explaining the working parts of a firearm, cleaning it properly, as well as operational loading and cocking of the different guns.

    Day 3: Handing in of a work book that a police member has to complete on the legal principles of the Firearms Control Act. It also contains a written assessment on the use of a firearm in the military and law enforcement environment.

    Day 4: Practical shooting exercise: shoots are done at between 5m and 25m with all three weapons, 9mm pistol, Mauser shotgun and R5 semi-automatic assault rifle.

    Day 5: Practical: workspace course or stress test - shooting from behind barricades, jumping over walls, shooting through windows, correct use of protective cover, magazine changes, identification of targets and tactical shooting positions.

    Shooting tests: 9mm pistol / R5 semi-automatic assault rifle - 30 rounds fired.

    Shotgun - five and 10 rounds

    Between 30 percent and above qualifies a person for an immediate remedial shoot. Less than 30 percent and a member gets sent to the weapons clinic.- Pretoria News
    "Guns are just tools, the way they're used reflects the society they're apart of, if you don't like guns, blame it on society" ~Chris Kyle

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Thousands of police technically in the illegal possession of their firearms

    What can we say?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Thousands of police technically in the illegal possession of their firearms

    *actually cant think of what to say,apart from that we can see the consequences in the headlines....*

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    Default Re: Thousands of police technically in the illegal possession of their firearms

    Having just this week viewed a video shot at an 'advanced' SAPS test I can only say that the worst case scenario imaginable from the above flatters the SAPS members taped in this instance.

    Worse yet is that each member in Gauteng only has 6 rounds for their Z88 allocated to them, and only one R5 is allocated per SHIFT!
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
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  5. #5
    Member abhm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands of police technically in the illegal possession of their firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    .

    Worse yet is that each member in Gauteng only has 6 rounds for their Z88 allocated to them, and only one R5 is allocated per SHIFT!
    each member in Gauteng??????
    A police station in Gauteng
    7 r5's in CSC safe, each with at least one mag
    Each member has been issued at least 30 9mm rounds
    SCM at that station has said if any member at that station claims different she is very happy to draw their 108 and check!
    Bi Annual 108 inspection confirms!
    All members have either done or are doing their FC course with yearly repeats!
    So not all members in Gauteng sit in this position!

    I have very recently done this course as described by OP. Its very good.
    Col D who runs it is very committed

    The only shortage I have heard of is 5.56 at the training so Stations are asked to send rounds per member to the training course

    Maybe Jhb is radically different from Pta?
    Last edited by abhm; 10-12-2011 at 07:34.
    I am studying an awesome brand of leg fighting which was inspired by dung beetles and I think my brand of Kraft Manure is superior to all other styles ever invented. Furthermore I challenge all other manurists to a rolling contest where we shall establish whose manure ball is the biggest! I shall call it Honest Kraft Manure and declare it superior to all other brands of manure and will tell you that I have claimed the lineage directly to Imshi the great Dragon Kru Master Beetler who invented manuring, by gathering all manure from different animals together and making it work as the worlds most effective fertilizer. I proved myself by being members of not one but three super elite special gardening departments who were responsible for spreading manure to combat weed infestations!

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    Moderator ikor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands of police technically in the illegal possession of their firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by abhm View Post
    each member in Gauteng??????
    A police station in Gauteng
    7 r5's in CSC safe, each with at least one mag
    Each member has been issued at least 30 9mm rounds
    SCM at that station has said if any member at that station claims different she is very happy to draw their 108 and check!
    Bi Annual 108 inspection confirms!
    All members have either done or are doing their FC course with yearly repeats!
    So not all members in Gauteng sit in this position!

    I have very recently done this course as described by OP. Its very good.
    Col D who runs it is very committed

    The only shortage I have heard of is 5.56 at the training so Stations are asked to send rounds per member to the training course

    Maybe Jhb is radically different from Pta?
    And while it has been some months ago, I can confirm much of what ABHM just stated about that particular station since I have personally seen the inside of that vault...complete with several idle R5's, spare mags and plenty of ammo, and know that the several Members I have interacted with from that station all have at least 30rd of issue ammunition and at least one spare mag for their 9mm pistols. Other stations in the province I cannot comment on.
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