6.8 SPC

[Thorkind]

What is your view on this caliber? Is it a practical step in the right direction or just another solution to a non-existent problem?

[SSP]

What does it do that 7.62X39 doesnt except work in an AR platform?

[Corné]

Ok, no expert in this terrain and going out on a limb. It would seem that the 5.56 lacks a bit and something with a bit more punch would be nice. The 7.62NATO is not the answer. The 7.62x39 seems to be in the same league as the 6.8SPC. However the biggest immediate client for this would be the USA and from a financial point and a ease of change, it would be good to get something that would work from existing platforms. This would ease retraining from a new platform. The 7.62x39 does not operate from this platform and thus would require a total new platform. It would seem that there is not a suitable platform for the US for the 7.62x39 to convert to this and I would also reckon that pride could play a big role in discrediting the 7.62x39 from their point of view and other western nations.

[SSP]

That and the "Not invented here syndrome"

[Geoff Carter]

I have it on very good authority (a friend who operated in "the Stan") that a number of M4's were converted to 7,62 X 39mm because of ammo issues where these individuals were operating and they were most happy with this set up.

I wouldn't mind having a try with something like that!!!

[BigT]

A couple of manufacturers produced 7.62x39 ARs a few years ago but I understand they werent particularly reliable or durable.

[Glockster]

6.8 SPC was designed as an intermediate round to fill the gap between 7.62 and 5.56. Apparently Hadji sustained multiple 5.56 hits and continued sipping his goat milk with no ill effects.
Enter the 6.8 which was designed to have more "knock down" power in a package smaller than 7.62.
Would be more practical to pick up an AK and shoot with it, but the platform does not support the host of accessories that the M4/M16 series does.
Besides there are probably millions of M16's in circulation and it would be a waste to build a completely new rifle to suit the round.
From what I've heard the 6.8 did help hadji re-establish perspective in the terminal effects dept.
;)

[abhm]

I have it on very good authority (a friend who operated in "the Stan") that a number of M4's were converted to 7,62 X 39mm because of ammo issues where these individuals were operating and they were most happy with this set up.

I wouldn't mind having a try with something like that!!!

Where in the "Stan" was this? What Unit and when? ISAF or CF? why would they do this, AK's are a pound a plenty ALL US troops have at least familirization training with the AK? all ANA with them would have AK's why would they want to convert an M4 to that calibre when they could just use an AK? It would F up their ressupply in any event (ANA supplies its own ammo via the US Mil distrib network)

Have e mailed a US Mil friend of mine on this, if it was any unit it was ODA, he is ODA and he never heard of it

[Craig]

From what I understand, the 6.8 SPC was designed for a specific role, with government backing, the 6.5 Grendel was designed for the same role, but privately. Both are better rounds than any 5.56 and they fit the AR system. In the 6.8 round, the case is very narrow, with allows the maximum number of rounds to be loaded into the STANAG mag, with slight changes. The 6.5 is a fatter cartridge. The Russian rounds don't work well with the AR system due to the taper on the case, meaning that they need a magazine with 'x' amount of curvature on it, this won't fit into the AR mag well. The US would never use a Russian design anyway, that would just be wrong, they'd re-brand it at the very least.

These calibres are being used in Iraq by SPECOPS, indicating that the 5.56 is just not cutting it there, for what they need / want.

The Russian calibres are good, both of them, not denying that, but this is a better cartridge in my opinion, with better ballistics. These will also be made to a better spec than the mass produced Russian stuff, so will be much more accurate from the M4 rifles than any AK. You can spray and pray, but its the hits that count.

[abhm]

I never once saw such rifles in general use by SPECOPS in either the Stan or Iraq! maybe some were used as test beds but certainely none that I saw operationaly, that being said SPECOPS in terms of the US Mil is a wide term, my primary experience was with the ODA guys and they might be in limited use by ODD or non US Army formations