Muzzle and finger

[hp]

Hi,
Went through my rulebook the other day after I realized I need to shape up a bit on the rules. After going through it a few questions popped up.

1) Where is it decided that 2 muzzle calls is equal to a DQ.

I went through the entire rulebook and found that you cannot be disqualified for getting a Muzzle call or even 2. As I read it a muzzle call is a warning given by the Safety Officer to the shooter as soon as the shooter’s muzzle starts to go at an unsafe direction. The shooter has not physically done anything wrong yet. This is a precautionary warning to help the shooter out. As soon as the muzzle passes the muzzle safe point, sweeps a body part or SO, etc. It is an immediate DQ.

As far as I am concerned you cannot penalize a shooter for receiving a muzzle call for he has not done anything wrong yet!


2) Finger?

I also picked up that a finger call as I understand it is handled the same as a cover call.

As stated in the rulebook:
A. Failure to comply will result in a three (3)
second procedural error penalty.
B. Multiple violations of this rule could result in
additional penalties or disqualification from the
entire match at the discretion of the MD.
Now multiple violations? Is this in one string or an entire match? As I understand it: If you for instants move with your finger inside the triggergaurd and you get warned “finger”. If you rectify it nothing happens. If you do not respond you get issued a Procedural Penalty. If you do not respond for the 3rd time you get a DQ. Nowhere does it state that the violation is applicable over more than one stage. As far as I am concerned a finger call is scored the same as cover.

Just checking up on my rules. Hope to receive positive feedback.


Thanks,

[G-force]

Just don't do it on any stages.Those rules are there for a reason,not to punish anyone.Who cares if it is one string or on different strings?Suppose one competetior gets one "finger" warning on each and every string in each and every stage,would you want him on your detail?Maybe he will also get two "muzzle" warning on everystring aswell?
Train and create good habits and good muscle memory,you are handling a tool that can kill.

[hp]

I agree with you G-Force. Firearm Safety is my top priority on the range. Till date never received a finger or muzzle call, never been DQ'ed (Touch Wood). My concern is just that the rulebook states something different than happens on the range. I have never seen a person get a PE for a finger violation? Why not? Not old enough to become an SO yet. A few months to go. This is just stuff I want clarity on before I do the SO course.

[SSP]

See rule S1.

Dangerous or repeated finger violations are considered to be unsafe gun handling and render you subject to an immediate DQ.

So too are repeated muzzle issues in my view.

[BigT]

Would you rather spend the day shooting with someone unsafe who just got a PE or have them sent home to find a clue?

[IdleLayabout]

"S 1. Unsafe gun handling will result in immediate disqualification from the entire match. Examples (but not limited to): etc etc"

That pretty much covers it. If the SO warns you once and you do it again then he\she can DQ you. It's repeated unsafe handling.

From the 2007 precedents:

5. “Finger” and “Muzzle” Calls
We also discussed the contradiction in the rule book concerning the “finger” and muzzle” calls and awarding Procedural Error penalties. The understanding is that the SO will try and prevent giving a PE by first warning the shooter of the offence.
The severity of it must be decided by the SO. If however a warning is not adhered to, a PE must be awarded. If the muzzle is too quick for a warning and breaks the muzzle safe indicators, the SO must stop the shooter and apply unsafe gun handling.
Wherever possible the SO must attempt to warn the shooter with a “finger” or “muzzle” warning. By giving a warning and the shooter immediately corrects his actions, a PE may NOT be awarded.

From the above, finger and muzzle calls get 1 warning and\or PE, maybe not during the string as it may be too fast, however the shooter will be informed of the call and the PE.


AFAIK finger calls are for the entire match. E.g. at the Southern Nationals an SO informed the following stage's SO of a finger call with a PE. The shooter repeated the error in the following stage and was DQ'd. I can't find any instance in the rules where it says a 2nd or 3rd time, that's the discretion of the SO. If it's blatant, for instance dropping a loaded gun or sweeping any other person including yourself you get DQ'd. Finger or muzzle calls seem to be the exception where you get a warning with or without a PE.

[G-force]

I agree with you G-Force. Firearm Safety is my top priority on the range. Till date never received a finger or muzzle call, never been DQ'ed (Touch Wood). My concern is just that the rulebook states something different than happens on the range. I have never seen a person get a PE for a finger violation? Why not? Not old enough to become an SO yet. A few months to go. This is just stuff I want clarity on before I do the SO course.

My rebuke was not aimed at you,just saying it the way I see it.
It is good to know the exact rules I agree,especially if you plan on being a SO and want to be consistent and fair in your calls.I am sure that when you do SO one day you will make the right call.

[hp]

@SSP - Thank you. Could not find that exact words but I guess you are talking about S1(E). I still think there is a grey area.

@BigT - As I said to G-Force. I do agree fully. As long as you follow the rules. I believe you cannot DQ a person for a rule not broken.

[BigT]

Hp the four are universal and overrule any other firearm rule. Hence a finger call is a broken rule. That can lead to DQ. And slaps in a better world.

[Lian]

i'd prefer a DQ over the bleeding ears you'll get from the uitkak session.