Re-Thread : Is SAGA / GOSA / BGOASA / etc effective?

[wrm]

As I said elsewhere, I was lying in bed this morning thinking. It's Thursday, I have to put the bin out. I pay council about R70 a month to come clean my bin out. I pay SAGA about the same for a year's subs. Can I really expect much from SAGA?

The following is to the best of my knowledge, please correct me...

SAGA is about five people in Durban and Johannesburg. GOSA is about five guys in Cape Town, three in Johannesburg, and one in Durban. BGOASA is one guy.

Of course there are all the sporting organisations but they are also one person here, one person there. The whole committee for a shooting club would be about six people, and as others have pointed out in other threads, they are tasked with doing what's best for the sport, their specific sport, and not what's best for gun owners. Getting the shooting fraternities involved in the "negotiations" was a Bad Idea (TM), IMHO.

So back to the people fighting for your gun rights. I think SAGA's secretary / admin person gets a salary. I don't think anyone else does. Certainly GOSA is all volunteers.

This forum has a 1300 members, of which 20 or 30 are active. Similarly, of the few million firearm owners, a few thousand are members of SAGA. That doesn't give them operating capital, and they have to scrounge time for the cause.

So. Yes, we need an organisation like SAGA. We need to have paid people with the time to go to government to represent us. We need people that have the time to sit and think and formulate and execute plans.

But it's either going to take more members or more subs. Or both. And the time to do it is... ten years ago.

And yes, I believe organisations like SAGA and GOSA and BGOASA have been instrumental in us being in a helluva lot better position than we could have been in. For the resources they have had available, they deserve more than just a pat on the back. What they have accomplished is IMO not that far short of a miracle. Pity so few people see that.

I've said this before, but not on a public forum I don't think.

If SAGA and GOSA and BGOASA fail utterly, and we lose all our guns, there will be people out there saying "See? Why did you waste your time? I told you you can't fight government". If SAGA and GOSA and BGOASA win, and we get the FCA 2000 scrapped and replaced with something that works, THOSE EXACT SAME PEOPLE will say "See? I told you you didn't have to do anything. Thing was going to collapse under its own weight anyway".

And that is where Yours Truly will Truly Lose his Cool, and end up in jail for assault with the intent to do grevious bodily harm, draw and quarter, boil the pieces, scatter the ashes, sow the land with salt, and so forth and so on.

[camouflage762]

Proofs in the eating. We are worse off now than we were pre 2000.We can only play catchup :police:

[Corné]

Good question and line of thought.

"Wars" are thought with money and not everything that goes bang. If you do not have the cash to back you up then you are in a very weak position. Shooting clubs are run by chosen individuals without compensation and they do it in their spare time and with some financial implications to themselves but in general this is small and insignificant.

Yes we need a organised front to 'fight' for us. (I do not use the term 'Right' as we do not have the 'Right' to firearms) This does take time and people and to be effective you need 'professional' full time people. You need someone that can do the admin and someone to do this and that and unfortunately these 'services' do come at a price.

Imagine if we could have a body with a lawyer or two (or whatever), a media specialist and some admin people in place that does this as a full time job. They do not have to do it on a ad hoc part time basis with something else to keep the pot cooking but on a full time basis.

A structure like that could easily cost you R300,000 per month (if not more). This is a big number but lets say that you do get the members of gunsite mobilised in a financial way, this would (based on 1300 members) be a contribution of R230 per member per month. Compare that to what you spend on average for a security company to monitor your alarm and give you some king of armed response! Even if you bring a structure into place that would cost R500,000 per month, you would need 7143 gunowners to make a monthly contribution of R70 per month to cover this. (and as per the initial thread...this is what you pay monthly to get your garbage removed)

No....do not get me wrong, I am not advocating that gunsite should become a site that you should pay to be a member. All I am doing is showing in theory how 'easy' it is to get major funds together to fund a full time structure to fight for us. In practice it does become a total different ball game as to get this amount of people committed on a continued basis is easier said than done.

All I am saying is that we need a full time structure to deal with this and a full time structure will cost money but in theory the money should not be a problem if we can get gunowners unified and mobilised.

As has been said....if you are a member of SAGA, what do you expect of your R70 per year compared to your R70 per month for refuse removal?

[Just Plain Phil]

Spot on the mark.


+10000000000000000000000000.

How can I help.

[camouflage762]

Before we start, what OBJECTIVES do we hope to acheive. Pre FCA, or protected rights in the constituion etc?
Lets all get on the same page. :)

[SSP]

Before we start, what OBJECTIVES do we hope to acheive. Pre FCA, or protected rights in the constituion etc?
Lets all get on the same page. :)

This is the correct approach.

Bitching and moaning has gotten nowhere, which is unsurprising.

Clear and achievable goals need to be set and a plan established as to how to go about the achievement of those goals.

[shooter]

The first goal should be that the current laws do not get any tougher - stabilize?

[SWATG]

I will leave the strategy to you clever people, all I can say is that I already float in and out of CFR regularly, have meetings and phonecalls with some of the ministry of safety and security (new people might be coming in so I need to make new contacts) and have many "exhibition" shoots etc. with some very influential people, at this moment I am seen as a helping hand in many cases, so basically I am there, I can just as well be more constructive. I will be dropping off some copies of my DVD to some "serious" players next week, so bottomline if help is required I am there, but as stated it boils down to money issues, so the more support I receive in an "informal" way the more I can achieve in a "formal" way, count me in, my assistance in this cause ultimately can either lead to survival in the industry, or closure, I will rather join the battle and fight for survival!

[abhm]

Twakkie you and Camo sound like the ideal people to draw up this strategy document! why dont you engage and get a start!

[camouflage762]

Twakkie you and Camo sound like the ideal people to draw up this strategy document! why dont you engage and get a start!

Bad-mood day? ;)
..