Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 36
  1. #21
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Centurion
    Posts
    1,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farmer-el View Post
    From above...

    e)For the purposes of exercising the powers conferred by paragraph (c) or (d), a member shall display, set up or erect on or next to the road or at the public place such sign, barrier or object as is reasonable in the circumstances to bring the order to stop to the attention of the driver of a vehicle approaching a roadblock so as to ensure that the vehicle will come to a stop or to the attention of a person approaching the checkpoint.

    A few years back I was stopped at a very casual roadblock. One vehicle and two police members. It was on a rural road. The vehicle was off to the side, literally in the bush. \The two officers were in civvies. They were searching for a stock theft suspect. When I saw them waving a torch, I was extremely nervous. I slowed to a crawl, deciding do I run over them or stop. I stopped, but could easily have made the descision to drive, resulting in me possibly being shot. From the above, it seems that everything was legal, but not the set up? There were no signs, barricades, uniforms etc. and only when you stopped could you see the vehicle decals. From the above was this road block "illegal"?
    As you rightly pointed out, the member should place a sign/barrier/object that is reasonable in the circumstances to bring the order to stop to the attention of the driver. Whether this member did so or not, is questionable.

    However, the National Road Traffic Act 93/1996 states the following in terms of the powers of a traffic officer, which includes any SAPS member :

    3I. Powers and duties of traffic officer.—In addition to the powers and duties conferred upon him or her or under this Act, a traffic officer may, subject to the provisions of this Act or any other law—

    ..

    (b) when in uniform, require the driver of any vehicle to stop such vehicle;
    This is where I would like to request some input from the legal experts. When read and interpreted, does this section from the NRTA combine with Section 13(8) of the SAPS Act, in such a way that it requires, over and above the requirements for a roadblock to be set up as per the SAPS Act, that at least one member that is part of the roadblock be in full uniform as per Section 3I(b) of the NRTA?
    Beware the killer ræbbit of Caerbannog! Look, that ræbbit's got a vicious streak a mile wide. It's a killer!!! He's got huge, sharp... eh, he can leap about... LOOK AT THE BONES!!!
    [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmu5sRIizdw&sns=em[/URL]

  2. #22
    Member abhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,190

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    so the police standing orders and police act if I recall have specific sections dealing with the pursuit of suspects and indicate that with the guideline of reasonableness that residences and vehicles etc may be searched without warrant, again revert to the clause of the CPA in which it says a warrantless search may be executed should the officer have reasonable grounds to suspect a criminal activity, that the officer/ member belived the warrant would be issued but that the delay would render moot the purpose of the warrant.

    Paul I believe that various sections of the legislation referred to, were tested in terms of constitutionality with regards motions or actions addressed against arrest during cordon and search operations, I might be mistaken but seem to remember it being upheld that police actions in specific circumstances were permissable

    Roadblock authorizations should be held by the officer/ member in charge of the roadblock or be available for perusal, it should specify a unit or station indicate a date and time frame and name a station in whose area it occurs and be signed or countersigned by the station commander for that area
    I am studying an awesome brand of leg fighting which was inspired by dung beetles and I think my brand of Kraft Manure is superior to all other styles ever invented. Furthermore I challenge all other manurists to a rolling contest where we shall establish whose manure ball is the biggest! I shall call it Honest Kraft Manure and declare it superior to all other brands of manure and will tell you that I have claimed the lineage directly to Imshi the great Dragon Kru Master Beetler who invented manuring, by gathering all manure from different animals together and making it work as the worlds most effective fertilizer. I proved myself by being members of not one but three super elite special gardening departments who were responsible for spreading manure to combat weed infestations!

  3. #23
    User
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    60
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    Jip all this paper work makes it difficult for the Saps to catch criminals, a pity the criminals don't need to complete search warrants, get permission to stop and hijack, kill or robbed you.

  4. #24
    User Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    on the edge of the gene pool, playing with an open container of HTH
    Posts
    15,614

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by topcop View Post
    Jip all this paper work makes it difficult for the Saps to catch criminals, a pity the criminals don't need to complete search warrants, get permission to stop and hijack, kill or robbed you.
    Constitutional democracies are a pain in the arse, aren't they?
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  5. #25

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by abhm View Post

    Roadblock authorizations should be held by the officer/ member in charge of the roadblock or be available for perusal, it should specify a unit or station indicate a date and time frame and name a station in whose area it occurs and be signed or countersigned by the station commander for that area
    There is an Eastern Cape High Court judgement on the test for reasonableness of holding an authorised roadblock. The rationale that allows for the suspension of constitutional rights was attacked i.e. what grounds justify the holding of such a roadblock. Can a Station Commissioner hold section 13(7) and (8) operations at his/her whim?

    The answer is NO. See http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAECHC/2008/46.pdf
    The reality is that probably 95% of SAPS sec 13(8) roadblocks are held without sufficient justification and as such you have a get out of jail ticket if you contest the grounds for arrest, search or seizure.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    hi guys .. firstly sorry for posting on such an old thread but it suits my question to the T.. i have received the message below on whatsapp and i would appreciate if you guys can confirm it . so here it goes ....



    ROADBLOCKS AND YOUR RIGHTS


    You have basic rights and you are allowed to exercise them


    Here’s what you need to know about your rights at a roadblock


    We’ve all been there – you are headed home after a nice evening out with loved ones when, suddenly, flashing blue lights and a police officer orders you pull to the side of the road. A roadblock. Immediately, your palms start sweating, your heart rate increases and you become anxious. But you have basic rights and you are allowed to exercise them.


    Here’s what you need to know about your rights at a roadblock.


    FIRST THING’S FIRST


    There are two kinds of roadblocks.


    Informal roadblocks: these roadblocks usually pop up on major roads and off-ramps. Their primary goal is to curb drunken driving, speeding or unroadworthy vehicles. They also usually check for outstanding fines.

    K78 roadblocks: these roadblocks are approved by the National Police Commissioner. Police officers are allowed to search your vehicle and your person without a warrant. These roadblocks are usually set up to find a specific criminal or vehicle already on their radar. Whenever a police officer requests to search your vehicle or person, you can legally ask them to provide you with the Commissioner’s authorisation letter. If the officer is unable to present the authorisation letter, you have the right to deny the officer access to you or your vehicle.


    WHAT COPS CAN DO


    A police officer must be in full uniform when working at a roadblock. Officers are allowed to pull you over for any of the following reasons:


    To complete a routine check of the vehicle and the driver. Depending on the type of roadblock, they may request a full search.


    The driver committed a traffic offence like failing to stop at a stop street or speeding.


    The vehicle is suspected to be stolen or the vehicle is believed to contain criminal individuals or contraband.

    At an informal roadblock


    The officer is legally allowed to do the following:


    Request your driver’s licence and ID.


    Check for outstanding fines.


    Check the vehicle’s licence disk and ensure the car is roadworthy.


    If the officer requests to search the car, he/she must provide you with a copy of an official warrant stating the reason for the search.

    Should an officer have reasonable grounds to perform a search without a warrant, and he/she can prove this in the court of law at a later stage, he/she may perform a search. A search can also be performed should the officer believe any delays would hamper a possible criminal investigation.


    Should the officer suspect the driver is driving under the influence, the following steps may be taken:


    The driver may be requested to exit the vehicle.


    A breathalyser test may be requested. Should the driver refuse, the police can legally detain the driver and have blood tests done at the nearest police station.


    At a K78 roadblock


    The police can do the following by law:


    Search any vehicle or person without a warrant.


    Seize items from the vehicle or person should these be illegal or suspected to be linked to a crime.

    Should a police officer request to perform a body search, it is illegal for an officer of the opposite sex to search you.

    A motorist can do the following by law:


    Members of the public are at liberty to ask for a copy of the written authorisation letter given by the National Police Commissioner. The authorisation letter must provide the following information to make it valid:


    ¶ The date of the authorised roadblock


    ¶ The duration of the roadblock


    ¶ The purpose of the roadblock


    OUTSTANDING FINES


    The South African Constitution makes no provision for cops to insist on the payment of fines on the spot. The only time you are legally obliged to pay a fine immediately is when the officer can provide you with a copy of the official warrant or summons.

    ARRESTS


    Whenever you are stopped at a roadblock, the police are allowed to arrest you with or without a warrant under the following conditions:


    You are found to be driving under the influence.


    You have been driving recklessly, carelessly or dangerously.
    You are wilfully obstructing the roadway.


    You are found to be driving with a cancelled or disqualified licence.
    Police suspect you may have committed or are about to commit a crime.


    You verbally or physically abuse an officer. Any racial slurs, threats, crude gestures or physical contact could result in arrest. Also preventing an officer from doing their job is a criminal offence.

    IF YOU FEEL UNSAFE


    Oftentimes, especially late at night, drivers feel a bit more wary about pulling over at a roadblock. Fortunately, there are steps to follow should you feel at all unsafe. It is important to remain calm and rational at all times.

    Call 10111 and inform them that you’re either being followed by a car with blue lights, or you feel unsafe pulling over at a roadblock.


    Provide the operator with a vehicle registration number if possible so they can verify whether the car is in fact a police vehicle.


    If you’re unable to get through to the 10111 call centre, slow down as much as you can, switch on your hazards, open your window and indicate with your arm that you would like the police vehicle to follow you – ensuring that you don’t exceed 40km/h. Drive to the nearest police station or petrol station where you’re in sight of people and CCTV cameras.


    Should you have already stopped at a roadblock, but feel threatened, you are at liberty to ask the officer for their badge number.


    Calmly inform the officer that you wish to call 10111 to confirm their badge number. If the officer becomes agitated, it is best to remain compliant. If necessary, you can submit a formal complaint at a later stage.


    CAN I FILM THE POLICE ?


    Yes. Legally, you are allowed to film or photograph police officers at a roadblock. It is also illegal for officers to confiscate or damage your recording equipment or to force you to remove footage or images.


    CAN I ASK FOR IDENTIFICATION ?


    Yes, Members of the public are legally allowed to ask a police officer to provide proof of identity by means of an identity card, badge number and/or appointment certificate.


    To report a case of police brutality or if you suspect someone to not be an official officer, contact 10111 or submit a report to the Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID).


    Sources: Automobile Association of SA, Arrive Alive, Criminal Procedure Act, Police Act


    Source : https://m-net.dstv.com/show/carte-bl...ur-rights/news

  7. #27
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    White River District
    Age
    60
    Posts
    452

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by destroyer View Post
    Check for outstanding fines.


    Should you have already stopped at a roadblock, but feel threatened, you are at liberty to ask the officer for their badge number.


    Calmly inform the officer that you wish to call 10111 to confirm their badge number. If the officer becomes agitated, it is best to remain compliant. If necessary, you can submit a formal complaint at a later stage.


    CAN I ASK FOR IDENTIFICATION ?


    Yes, Members of the public are legally allowed to ask a police officer to provide proof of identity by means of an identity card, badge number and/or appointment certificate.


    To report a case of police brutality or if you suspect someone to not be an official officer, contact 10111 or submit a report to the Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID).
    An outstanding fine is no reason to be detained or be harassed /intimidated into paying such fines on-the spot at the little "mobile paypouints" that so often accompany a roadblock. Only if there is an outstanding warrant of arrest for failing to appear in court following a summons that has been issued and properly served on you, you can be detained.

    SAPS members do not have "badge numbers as is seen in hollywood movies. They only have an identification card on which their SAPS number appears. You are entitled to ask to see this ID.

    I'm not sure if "badge numbers" apply to traffic officers. In my opinion a badge/badge number without a photo is worth nothing.

    The best advice in the whole thing, is "remain complaint" if confrontation arises. You will come off second-best if you try to be clever. Rathet try to keep track of events/record as much as possible & follow up later.

    (My 2c worth)

  8. #28
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    JHB and BFN
    Age
    47
    Posts
    1,521

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    But being aware and conscious of the issue at hand is very important and don't have yourself placed in a corner.

    Around 3 weeks ago on a Jhb North backroad between Fourways and Kyalami I witnessed an informal SAPS roadside stop / roadblock pulling off selected vehicles and it seems questioning drivers.

    1 SAPS van, 1 unmarked civilian bakkie and 1 unmarked car parked next to the road.
    No SAPS roadside traffic cones or signs, just a flurry of activity and numerous placed individuals with a presence.

    4 visible R4's in hands, 2 handguns on hips of others. (may have been more)
    SAPS attire was incomplete and very mix-n-match...
    I picked up the following as I approached to pass.

    1 bloke had full SAPS uniform. (with sidearm)
    1 bloke had a floral coloured hat, jeans and a SAPS body armour vest which was very sun bleached... (with an R4 in hand)
    Another bloke had a grey work overall pants, construction worker high viz waistcoat (and an R4 in hand)
    Another had green overall pants, hat and a sunbleached body armour with SAPS letters.
    Another in civies with a worn SAPS high viz waistcoat top.

    The list can go on with what I picked up on glance, unfortunately all eyes were very aware and it wasn't possible for me to record or take photos.
    In all maybe 2 complete and correct SAPS uniforms, the others all looked like a group of bakkie builders had just been dropped and a road stop set up.

    What I'm well aware is that is wasn't a legitimate stop, I attempted to report at a station but without evidence the doush bags have no interest in cornering their colleagues making sideline money on their off days with SAPS (or SADF) equipment and weapons.

  9. #29
    User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    GP, but in my mind, hunting for Ivory in the 1930's
    Age
    43
    Posts
    6,253

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    SAPS with R4’s? That’s not right.
    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

  10. #30
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    JHB and BFN
    Age
    47
    Posts
    1,521

    Default Re: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.

    Hence the thought of SADF personnel involvement...

    The whole setup was far from being legit.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Use of Force - Your Rights and Powers of the Police
    By white_ræbbit in forum General Police Discussions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 17-08-2012, 08:23
  2. Search and Seizure - Your Rights and Powers of the Police
    By white_ræbbit in forum General Police Discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-03-2012, 10:34
  3. Arrest - Your Rights and Powers of the Police
    By white_ræbbit in forum General Police Discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-03-2012, 09:13
  4. Commentary on: Roadblocks - Your Rights and Powers of the Police.
    By Wanderin' Zero in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-03-2012, 11:59
  5. Know Your Rights at Roadblocks
    By niven_ramkellawan in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 28-07-2011, 16:55

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •