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  1. #1
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    Default Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    Hi guys,

    I recently ordered a muzzle loader on impulse after handling my cousins new Traditions Vortek. I haven't been so keen on something in years! Now I have a way to force my Old Man to do a proper walk and stalk to get as close as we can and then 10 yards closer! Unfortunately he has a bad knee so he's taken to the sit and wait form of hunting recently, not my style. Back on topic, I cant wait to learn how to shoot properly at something further than airgun ranges with open sights, either! I've been shooting and hunting with centerfires for years, but i'm at a bit of a loss with this blackpowder thing and I was hoping you guys could help me out? So far I've read up on just about all I can find on the net about the sport but there are a few things that I'm unclear about.

    Anyways, I've got a Traditions Vortek on the way along with scope mounts and the various loading and cleaning jags. Powder handling equipment will have to wait as I'm on a budget that is stretched as it is for the moment. I do have a scale for my centerfire reloading so I'll just have to make do with that and some speed loaders for the moment! With the scale, say for Sannadex, do I just weigh 80 grains if I want an 80 grain charge?

    The other thing I'm wondering about is the loading procedure. As far as I understand all you have to do is pour the measured powder charge down the barrel, start the bullet and use the ram rod to seat the bullet, taking care to make sure it is seated onto the powder. From there I take it you 'break' the action and prime it. From there its full loaded, is it really that simple? How important is a bullet starter? Can i make do with my ramrod to start with? Are there any common mistakes i should be aware with when it comes to loading that could be unsafe?

    Also, I'm looking keen on the idea of using connicals vs sabots purely due to the cost as I can cast my own as soon as i can get a mould. Is there any specific weight that works best?

    Most importantly, what are the limitations on these weapons? I understand that bullet drop is a big one but also in terms of quarry, what kind of penetration can i expect? Would it be up to taking an eland down with a nice big connical at close range? or am i expecting too much?

    Also, are there any other tips and tricks or pearls of wisdom any of you seasoned black powder hunters/shooters can pass on?

    Thanks in advance,
    Andrew

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    Interested to see what info pops up here from ML users. Also want (I mean need) one, when the budget allows.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    Hi,
    Welcome to the world of white smoke and soft lead

    I've always measured the powder by volume

    No, you don't need a bullet starter but it will make your life a lot easier when loading

    Lead conicals works great. You'll have to find the right charge/weight combination for your rifle. Part of the fun

    The biggest limitation is lack of speed/velocity and range. Use conicals in the +300gr range and get within a shooting distance your comfortable with (mine is max 120m)

    I've shot bleshbuck and kudu up to 120m and full penetration using 320gr and 370gr conicals with max charge of 85gr volume

    If you use a big conical at short range on eland you'll properly shoot right through. My rifle shoots a 510gr conical with 90gr of SDX-pistol quite accurately at 100m. That is my load that I'll use on eland and bwb at ranges below 120m but if a bwb/eland walks past at 80m and I'm loaded with a 370gr that bwb/eland is in trouble

    Enjoy

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    Welcome to the world of Black powder!

    A bullet starter is not a must to get started,but adviseable as it gets more difficult to load the bullet after the first shot has been fired.I would start off with a mild load of 70-75gr of powder and work your way up to about 100gr of powder,all dependant on how the rifle's accuracy reacts.Not one black powder rifle is the same,you will have to play around with bullets(sabbots,lead conicals) and the powder charge to find its happy medium.I only use sabbots on my .50CVA OPTIMA,with 250gr Hornady SST'S and 100gr of Sanndex i have had groupings of 5 shots on 100mtrs that you can close with a R5 coin.Also make sure that you dont exceed the max powder and bullet weight recommened by the manufacturer,and also keeping in mind that Sannadex is 33and one third more dense than original black powder.Sanndex has also discontinued their Rifle grain powder and only make rifle/pistol grain wich is finer,there is a difference shooting the two tipes of powder and I have found in my rifle the new powder has a lot more "woema".According to some manufacturers a shot can be taken up to 200yards,wich is well over 150mtrs.So the rifle is capable of 100mtr shots,personally I wont take a shot futher than 120mtrs-same as Klein Chris.Loading an in line is simple,firstly you make sure your barrel is clean and doesn't have a charge in it.Then you point the rifle in a safe direction and fire a cap to ensure the breech plug's fire hole is open to avoid having to deal with hangfire's.Then you pour a pre measured powder load down the barrel,take the bullet starter and put the bullet into the barrel pushing it in as far as you can.Then take your ramrod and push it down all the way making sure that the bullet is properly seated,this is very important as it can affect your accuracy.Break the action,fit a primer,close the action and you are ready to go.

    You also need to make a mark on your rod with a knife after seating the first bullet so you can make sure the next rounds are seated the same.When loading becomes more difficult it means it is time to clean the barrel.Also make sure that you dont accidently pour a double charge down the barrel as this dangerous and the barrel can explode.The biggest pain with muzzleloaders is the cleaning,but one of the most important parts as a dirty rifle can be less accurate.If you haven't doen your muzzleloading competency yet,I would suggest you get your hands on the Tradtions DVD to get started and then do the competency as this will give you a better understanding of muzlleloaders.Enjoy!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    If you clean between shots cleaning afterwards is much easier and faster. Sabbots is still easy to load with just the ramrod but when you want to load a lead bullet something like the Lee Real with ribs ment to engage with the rifling you want to use a short starter to get it going and engaging the rifling.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    Hi Andrew

    You asked for some pearls of wisdom, I learnt this one the hard way. Firstly make sure the bullet is seated correctly and compacted nicely, never leave a gap between the powder charge and projectile. A nice DVD i watched was explaining the importance of trying to keep the same pressure when seating your projectiles to try and increase the consistency in your shooting and loading method.

    With regards to knock down power on large sized game, don't be fooled, there isn't much these Muzzleloaders cannot take down.

    Enjoy and best regards
    Smokepole

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    Thanks guys! I'll try to keep all that in mind! Keep the tips coming if anyone has anymore, they're all much appreciated! I am totally clueless with front stuffers, that's for sure!

    My rifle arrived today, a Vortek with a camo stock. Camo wasn't my first choice but, seeing as it was cheaper and I'm on a budget, I'm not complaining! It looks much better in person that in the photo's! Speaking of photo's, I'll upload some tomorrow when my camera batteries are charged!

    I'd just like to thank Smokepole for all his help organising all this for me. If anyone needs anything with regard to rifles or accessories, give smokepole a PM!! His prices are first rate and the service he offers is brilliant! Not only did he patiently answere all of my questions, which made things a lot easier, he went out of his way to get me a rifle of which there were no examples left in the country.

    Powder and bullets are in the pipeline this week too! Sighting in and learning the absolute basics will happen on friday, followed by a baited bushpig hunt on friday night, a warthog hunt on saturday and possibly another bushpig hunt on saturday night! So I'll let you guys know how that goes!

    As for bullets, what would be a good starting point? I've found a R.E.A.L .50 320 grain mold for a good price, should I take the plunge?

    Thanks again,
    Andrew

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    The inlines normally have a faster rate of twist 1:24 or 1:28 and stabilizing the short REAL's can be a problem. My inline with a 1:28 twist don't like them but the side hammer with a 1:48 twist is deadly with the REAL's. Before you buy the mold rather get hold of a couple and try them. If they work take the plunge.

    If you like I'll send you some 320gr REAL's and 370gr Maxi's. PM me your postal address if your interested

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    The 320gr Real at 50m I get bullets touching with my 1:28 inline but thats 50m dont know how they do at longer distances.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Someone got the dreaded smokepole bug

    Thanks for all the help guys. Klein Chris, thanks so much for the offer, I might just take you up on it!

    It seems accuracy with a given bullet is gun specific. All the reading I've done seems to suggest even guns of the same brand with the same twist rate have different preferences.

    Onto competancy. I've been phoning around and rather unpleasantly informed that pretty much the cheapest competancy in the Pietermaritzburg area is R1050 or something crazy! Is there anywhere else in KZN where I can get it done cheap? Or even in Joburg as I'll be up there in there near future. Or has it come to taking advantage of the damand and has this become the going rate?

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