New SANDF Rifle

[Corné]

The rumour mill has it that because of the current govts pro palestinian policy the licenses were revoked. This is just rumour and I cannot make guarantee to the veracity of this claim.

That is the same rumour that I am 'operating' under. In the 'Old South Africa' we were Pro - Israel and that was kind of a friend to us. The 'New South Africa' is much more Pro - Palestinian and I do not think we have the same ties with Israel anymore.

I also do not think that we will go the AK route. The reason being purely a image issue. The government has made it clear through channels through the CFR to the Shooting Sport Bodies that they are not keep and actually oppose to license AK's for sport usage and the reason being the connotation of the AK to terrorism.... This message was conveyed to us via a Sport Shooting Association that had a meeting with the CFR. Yes I know that this is in context of private firearm ownership and is removed from the SAPS or SANDF but it remains a view of government. Also that was before the current elections and the current leaders may have a different view.

[Brendank]

Guys !!!!! List your top 3 replacement rifles for the SANDF. (Not what you want but what S.A will go for)

1. HK
2. Barreta
3. Scar

I think they will settle on an European manufacturer ,non U.S
Now that I think about it , I think they will also settle for a Piston driven weapon.

I would like to see either of the following three, two of which on your list HK:
1. H&K 416
2. FN Scar
3. M4

None of which I think we'll see here though sadly (don't think Govt has the funds to purchase a large order of any of the above rifles).

[SSP]

None of which I think we'll see here though sadly (don't think Govt has the funds to purchase a large order of any of the above rifles).

Money is not an object. Do you know what a Grippen costs?

I don't think that the R series is going anywhere for the forseeable future. I have my doubts regarding the rumours surrounding Denel's so called loss of licence. Denel has authorised other entities to make parts for these rifles.

Also, they are in, albeit limited, production in the US. Ohio Rapid Fire and Caspian make receivers. Century and others make rifles.

[Thorkind]

Guys !!!!! List your top 3 replacement rifles for the SANDF. (Not what you want but what S.A will go for)

1. HK
2. Barreta
3. Scar

I think they will settle on an European manufacturer ,non U.S
Now that I think about it , I think they will also settle for a Piston driven weapon.

Again, I reckon the procurement will be politically driven (with little side deals). Considering we have German subs/corvettes, British hawk trainers, Italian helicopters and Swedish fighters, IF anything happens, my money's on a European country. Which one is anyone's guess. If we base it on the countries we've recently done "business" with:

H&K G36
AK5A
Beretta AR70

[HK416]

Beretta ARX 160 .223

[ikor]

The FN SCAR is now being issued to units of the US SPECOPS (75th Rangers, etc) and we will see how much farther it goes in US service as time passes. The Beretta AR70 is old tech now and will be replaced in Italy by their new ARX160. The G36 is the big seller for H&K, even though some Scandinavian country or other...Normark, Finway, I can't recall now...has adopted the 416 and it is also issued to some US SPECOPS units as well, The Izzies apparently have no problems selling drone aircraft to Russia or other items to China, so I hardly think they would quibble too much over a license to SA for a rifle they have never used in great numbers. Their new Tavor is also now being fielded with their units so they might even make a push for it.

IF a new rifle is procured for the SANDF my guess would be...

G36
ARX160
A reduex of the R4/5/6

I agree, the 5.56 cartridge will be used for general issue with some specialty rifles in larger calibers.

[shooter]

Why is there always a need to replace some firearm with a new brand or version? If it works, why spend money? I obviously don't know much about the subject, so I'm interested in hearing more. In the US I sometimes hear (on forums) this agency is replacing x with y, etc and I think: whats the point? Is it just a craving for something new?

[ikor]

Why is there always a need to replace some firearm with a new brand or version? If it works, why spend money? I obviously don't know much about the subject, so I'm interested in hearing more. In the US I sometimes hear (on forums) this agency is replacing x with y, etc and I think: whats the point? Is it just a craving for something new?

Weapons wear out, parts such as magazines, springs, pins, etc begin to need more and more maintenance, barrels get shot out (or in some cases, overcleaned and worn out) factory support slowly dies and acquiring new parts or weapons becomes more and more difficult, technology changes, advancements are made that the old system cannot take advantage of, all sorts of valid reasons for new weapons...not to mention a few less valid ones I can think of, such as a new chief or director wanting to put his 'stamp' on a department or maybe an entire service such as the Army, etc.

[Thorkind]

Beretta ARX 160 .223

Indeed. Minus some gunorak points for me please. ;D

[camouflage762]

IMHO:
Yes, politics will account for 90% of the reason for a new rifle for our troops. 10% will account for practicality. (Witness the great rifle debate post WWII)
As the unappreciated Kommader of the long suffering armed forces of the Republic of LALA land.....

When choosing a longgun, one first settles the issue of calibre.
The 5.56mm is no good.
Col. Jeff Cooper said the so.
We must listen to the Guru Colonel.

Thus I would order an investigation into the feasibility of re barrelling the current R4/5 series to a 6x45mm.
This would (IMHO) also save much moola in the long run.
Really comes down to the OAL of the 6x45 vs the 5.56x45mm

Would much prefer "made in SA" however I suspect a strong chicom influence. Having said that, it is noted, that europeans pay the best.
;D