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  1. #1
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    Default Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    Hi

    I would like to know if there are any collectable lever guns( Winchester type) in SA !? I am asking because it wasn't part of our heritage or used by our ou toppies. I can only find reproductions( and I own one of these) and limited anniversary guns ( And from what I hear the special run models arent that collectable)

    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    Depends on what you call collectible.

    I have an Winchester 1873 made in 1884 and an 1876 made in 1885 and a Marlin 1894 made in 1905. I also have a Winchester 1894 made in the fifties. And a Marlin 336 made in the eighties. And a Rossi, which you could count as a reproduction, as well as a Winchester 1892 I still have to licence. And a Ruger 22M, a Miroko 22 (which is the same gun as the Browning so not really a reproduction) and a Norinco 22 which is pretty much a copy of the Winchester 9422.

    I think that's pretty much what I have :-) No, hang on, I forgot the Savage 99 which also dates to the fifties. And the other Rossi...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    I don't have enough info at hand but I believe there was a "Boer" Winchester of sorts that did the rounds during the Boer war...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    Awesome collection!!! I did not not know that there were such old leverguns in SA. Which model is known as the origional Yellowboy? Where did you get those rifles?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilema View Post
    I don't have enough info at hand but I believe there was a "Boer" Winchester of sorts that did the rounds during the Boer war...
    I've got one, will be restoring it soon. Win model 1873 with 7 leaf express sight. This rifle was exported to rsa for the "boere" with these special sights. Quite rare in the states.





  6. #6
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    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    From: http://collectorebooks.com/jamesauct...ster/31678.htm


    "MODEL 1873 LEVER ACTION RIFLE WITH 7-LEAF EXPRESS SIGHT. SN 507473B. Cal. 44 WCF (44-40). Standard grade rifle with 24-1/4" oct bbl, full magazine, Beach's combination front sight and factory installed 7-leaf platinum line express rear sight with six leaves graduated 100 to 600 yards and seventh leaf, a ladder sight, graduated 700 to 1,000 yards. It has single set trigger and is mounted with nicely figured, uncheckered American walnut with straight stock and crescent buttplate with trap. Forend cap & buttstock have sling eyes. The bbl address is relocated far forward to accommodate the extremely long sight and the caliber marking is relocated from the top flat to the left top flat, also to accommodate the extra long sight. Accompanied by a Cody Firearms Museum fact sheet fully identifying this rifle, as found, with oct bbl, set trigger, 7-leaf express and Beach front sight with "screw eyes" shipped 10 February 1897 to order #1946. It is well documented that the vast majority of these 7-leaf sight rifles were ordered by and shipped to hunters and landowners in South Africa. Most of them saw extreme hard service on that frontier and are rarely ever found retaining much orig finish. CONDITION: Very fine. Bbl retains 93-95% orig finish turning slightly plum. Magazine tube retains about 95% strong orig blue with a repaired ding about mid-point. Forend cap retains about 65-75% orig finish. Receiver retains 75-80% strong orig finish, thin & turning brown over the top and bottom edges with a blue/gray top tang. Lever retains 25-30% faded case colors with balance turned silver and the hammer about 80% faded case colors. Buttplate is mostly a gray patina. Wood is sound with a gouge in the forearm and other light handling & use marks and retains about all of a light professionally restored finish. Set trigger functions perfectly. Mechanics are crisp, strong bright bore with fine orange peel pitting. 4-31678 JR215 (9,000-15,000)"

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    Well done Ralph and thanks for all the info above. Friend of mine also has one, that's how I became aware of them. Wish you much joy with the restoration project

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilema View Post
    Well done Ralph and thanks for all the info above. Friend of mine also has one, that's how I became aware of them. Wish you much joy with the restoration project

    No prob, your friend can use these links for more info regarding these "oldies"

    WINCHESTER DATES OF MANUFACTURE (sorry for caps lock)

    http://oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslo...le=win1873.dat

    History regarding Winchester lever rifles
    http://www.rarewinchesters.com/index.shtml

  9. #9

    Default Re: Collectable Lever Guns in SA ?

    Sorry but I couldn't resist this thread so (as a very enthusiastic Colt and Winchester collector) please take my comments for what they worth:

    I would like to know if there are any collectable lever guns (Winchester type) in SA !?

    Answer - plenty, but most are already in private collections and not available. Once you get into Winchesters you soon get to know who has what and, believe me, there are some amazingly rare pieces out there. Unfortunately they may only hit the market when they become part of a deceased estate but this does happen.

    Over the years of hand-ins, sorry forced re-licensing, many old and not so old Winchesters, were handed in for destruction, or sold for export, or sold or handed in to dealers for sale. It was a heyday period for collectors of all marques and when the shut off period came, so the supply ran out.

    Nowadays you really have to shop around to find any old Winchesters for sale. If you are serious about finding one, or more, join a collectors association; follow Classic Arms auctions; read the gun mag ads and particularly follow Junk Mail and the other internet sales sights. They do still come up but you had better be quick. If you are prepared to stay with the Winchester marque and look at other than lever actions there are many old Winchester .22 rifles out there even now at prices between R500 - R1500. And there are a miriad of different models to build up a very worthwhile collection.

    I am asking because it wasn't part of our heritage or used by our ou toppies.

    Answer - I have to take issue with this statement. I have one old 1873 rifle with the 'African' sights which I bought off a colleague of mine and which belonged to his grandfather who used it on the old Delagoa Bay wagon route. There are records of 1873 rifles being purchased by the old Cape Adminstration and certainly a few of the old Winchesters that I have came from old Boer families. I even have one which was unfortunately thrown in a dam to prevent the Bleddy Brits from seizing it.

    Particularly the old .44-40s and larger calibre 1876's and 1886's were regularly used for hunting and the old Mauser can't claim exclusivity as a Boer rifle. There are more than a fair share on 1895's in this country, many of them in .405 Win and none of them belonging to Teddy Roosevelt!

    Many 1873's and 1892's were brought in by immigrants from the UK and elswhere and these people were certainly 'ou toppies' to quite a few, even if they were called Grand Pa!

    I can only find reproductions( and I own one of these)

    Answer - look harder, they are there. And the challenge of finding them is exceptionally rewarding. But be very patient!

    and limited anniversary guns ( And from what I hear the special run models arent that collectable)

    Answer - there is no right answer. Generally speaking the newer limited edition guns are not worth the sticker prices and I would certainly not pay premium prices. Many of them were high volume sales boosters and are only really worth considering if they are in as new condition, unfired and complete with wrappings and labels. Any old Winchester is only worth what a prospective buyer is prepared to pay, and my advice is "do not pay too much" Just because this old 1873 is worth $5000 in the US it is not worth $5000 here! The reasons are many, the main one being to get $5000 you got to get it to the US, That in itself is a costly excercise and then you have to find someone to sell it for you and they don't work for free. I usually work on a SA price which is no more than 50% of the US value. But there are no rules, gut feel and common sense should prevail, but invariably don't!

    What do you think?

    Answer - you've had them. Get looking, if you buy right you'll have a lot of fun and may ven make some money.

    Final comment - to restore or not? My advice, don't! Usually restorations cost time and money and knock value off the gun. A good professional clean without any damage to wood or metal, followed by preservative treatment is all that I would recommend. Do not remove patina, it took years to get there. Collectors look for originality and condition and condition and condition.

    Many a good Winchester has had its value decimated through a 'professional' and expensive re-blue. If in doubt don't, oil it, put it aside and ask for advice.

    Hope this all helps
    If all else fails, use a bigger mousetrap

  10. #10
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    Default

    Nice post SB. I think I learnt more about firearm collecting from that reply than I have through many conversations. Are collections like yours and others ever publicly shown?

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