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  1. #1

    Default non lethal weapons

    Hi folks,
    I am wondering if some have advice for me. Several clients have approached me regarding non-lethal weapons - things like beanbag guns etc.
    Are these legal in South Africa? Do they require licenses?
    Nearby we have several community patrol groups which are hoping there is something that is legal that can be used to stop an oke, if they are being attacked by someone with a knife or something.
    Any advice, especially concerning existing units being used would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    David

  2. #2
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    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    Not 100% sure on the legality of beanbag rounds but am pretty sure that if they use some form of burning propellant cartridge then they will require a licence.

    I supply the Pepperball range of products which I believe will be suitable for the application you describe and are available without a licence. Contact me on 082-786-4362 and I will be happy to discuss in detail.

    Sean.
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body.

  3. #3
    Moderator ikor's Avatar
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    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    Best alternative I am aware of is the Tazer...I mean the REAL Tazer, not these little electric stun guns called tazers iocaiiy. They cost at least as much as a firearm amd only have a range of about 8 meters or so. I also have no idea if they are legal in SA without a license.

    http://www.taser.com/products/Pages/default.aspx
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

  4. #4
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by measuringtech
    Hi folks,
    I am wondering if some have advice for me. Several clients have approached me regarding non-lethal weapons - things like beanbag guns etc.
    Are these legal in South Africa? Do they require licenses?
    Nearby we have several community patrol groups which are hoping there is something that is legal that can be used to stop an oke, if they are being attacked by someone with a knife or something.
    Any advice, especially concerning existing units being used would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    David
    Get guns.

    Seriously. Even firearms are not guaranteed to stop an attacker. Pepper spray/stun guns/tazers/glorified paintball guns are going to be worse.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  5. #5

    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    Hi Guys thanks for the responses.
    Mainly at the moment, the people are looking to drive the naughties away, once they are on the run, either through gardens or on the streets. They do not want to use real firearms, once outside their actual house, due to the legal issues of firing at someone. That is why they are looking at non-lethal stuff - they dont want to end up in the slammer for winging a guy. Also they are hoping to keep their distance a bit - 8 meters is a bit close. Remembering these are ordinary guys, not tactically trained or anything - so 8 meters on a tazer they might miss! :) also, if they have real guns, there will be all sorts of lethal stuff flying.

    Thanks
    David

  6. #6
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by measuringtech
    Hi Guys thanks for the responses.
    Mainly at the moment, the people are looking to drive the naughties away, once they are on the run, either through gardens or on the streets. They do not want to use real firearms, once outside their actual house, due to the legal issues of firing at someone. That is why they are looking at non-lethal stuff - they dont want to end up in the slammer for winging a guy. Also they are hoping to keep their distance a bit - 8 meters is a bit close. Remembering these are ordinary guys, not tactically trained or anything - so 8 meters on a tazer they might miss! :) also, if they have real guns, there will be all sorts of lethal stuff flying.

    Thanks
    David
    Shooting at someone, even with something "less lethal" while you are not under attack is, at best, assault perhaps GBH and depending on 5oh and the NPA, attempted murder.

    Also, pointing something that could be mistaken for a firearm is an offence.

    Get guns. Get training.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  7. #7
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    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    No seriously, +1 to SSP

    Get guns, get training.

    I don't mean to be rude but is this the La La Land community patrol? They only want to chase naughties away, the naughties must run away when they see them, they must keep a distance of at least 8 metres, they must not be armed or if armed must only carry knives.

    Also "these are ordinary guys, not tactically trained or anything".

    This sounds like a recipe for bloodshed. The bad guys aren't spending a day at the Vladnik Carnival, they mean friggen business. I shit myself when I think of three purple-rinse tannies taking on the BG's with a tin of pepper-spray and a whistle

  8. #8

    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    well, this is what happened recently.
    a fellow woke up found them in the house. they heard him get up, they took off and he followed them. he winged one as the oke went off over the wall..... he is now sitting awaiting bail, on charges of attempted murder. so his family now sits alone, the gun is confiscated. and all the neighbours are all too wary to even pull out their weapon, let alone defend themselves, as they dont want to end up in the slammer with all that entails.

    tell me, as i appear to be living in La la land here ..... what is the legal option for someone - their neighbour calls for help, so a couple of okes get up and go to help. armed to the teeth lets say, and fully trained - what can they actually do, if the naughties do not lie down and beg to be arrested? can they shoot them? can they wing them? or can they merely wave them goodbye as they go trotting down the street? are you allowed to use force to arrest someone, who does not give up on your command of stop? they do not attack you directly. what can you do, if you are armed, and they attack someone else, who isnt armed?

    basically - when CAN you use your licensed firearm, with your training?
    thanks

  9. #9
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    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    Well for one, proper training will teach you not to leave your place of safety, run into the unknown, expose yourself, loose all your tactical advantage and moer someone running away(exposing yourself if empty handed of the risk of getting contaminated with possible HIV and many other diseases) that will end you up in jail, but training will up the possibility of protecting yourself when you are faced with imminent life threatening danger as stipulated under the law, you really do not require a rocket scientist assistance to understand basic principles of the law, with some common sense, and that is the short answer on why good training is required, but hey what do I care, generally people in SA loves being killed, assaulted,raped etc. because all of us apparently have the skills to fight off the bad guys, contrary to what the facts are!

  10. #10
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: non lethal weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by measuringtech
    well, this is what happened recently.
    a fellow woke up found them in the house. they heard him get up, they took off and he followed them. he winged one as the oke went off over the wall..... he is now sitting awaiting bail, on charges of attempted murder. so his family now sits alone, the gun is confiscated. and all the neighbours are all too wary to even pull out their weapon, let alone defend themselves, as they dont want to end up in the slammer with all that entails.
    The law of self defence is fairly straight forward. One may use lethal force if under lifethreatening attack. (This is an over simplification for illustration purposes) The guy shot someone who was climbing over his wall. Where was the threat?
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

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