New Assault Rifle/ Patrol Carbine for the SANDF/ SAPS what are your thoughts!

[abhm]

So guys, here is your chance. time to give your opinions on what you would reccomend as a new assault rifle for the SANDF and Patrol Carbine for the SAPS.
Some parameters

1 Must be tactically and strategically viaible
2 Must be sustainable
3 Must be reasonably affordable.

I hope the SANDF never goes the way of using an AK type, I would love to see them being issued with M4's but I doubt that would happen because of politics

I think the Dashprod is the best available model suited for a SAPS patrol carbine (again I would prefer an M4 but hey thats me)and a speciality weapon in the SANDF (PSD, signaller, armour etc) but there is still a major gap in terms of what could be used for a standard infantry weapon

I know all about rumours of R4 being extended, personally I wouldnt comment becuase its all unconfirmed
so come on guys what are your idea's

[SSP]

I witnessed some absolutely appalling behavior on a shooting range this weekend, after they had completed their training, I am of the view that issuing firearms to the general service is a mistake.

However that is not practical.

I agree that the DP would be suitable and convenient having regard to it's size.

Truvelo makes a carbine they refer to as the Raptor. It uses R mags and is apparently R based allowing for existing stock of magazines and parts to be used. It's also locally produced thus not dependent on the governments relations with another for supply.

There is no need, in my view, for the general police to be issued to be issued with a FA carbine.

[SWATG]

Not going to argue anything here, but I am itching to get my hands on the Dashprod 9mm version, very debatable but I like the idea for a 9mm carbine.

[SSP]

Not going to argue anything here, but I am itching to get my hands on the Dashprod 9mm version, very debatable but I like the idea for a 9mm carbine.

That sounds cool. What mags does it use. The russians do a cool helical 100 round mag for their version.

[Count Bla]

I hope the SANDF never goes the way of using an AK type, I would love to see them being issued with M4's but I doubt that would happen because of politics

I think you are wrong. Our average defence force member knows about as much about weapons maintenance as a sea monkey knows about brain surgery. Moving away from an AK/R/Galil system and to a more sensitive system will cause more failures and will be more costly at the end of the day.

I bet you'll be issued a brass mullet with your M4 for use on the forward assist. If we had a DF of a higher caliber (and I am generalizing a lot now, there are some good guys there), this MIGHT have been viable.

I say move to AK-47 in 7.62x39. At least we'll be in line with the rest of Africa.

[abhm]

I did not start this thread for a bashing post for the SANDF or SAPS
What are your suggestions for a a new assault rifle for SANDF or patrol carbine for SAPS
leave the guys serving out of this thread please!

[SSP]

I did not start this thread for a bashing post for the SANDF or SAPS
What are your suggestions for a a new assault rifle for SANDF or patrol carbine for SAPS
leave the guys serving out of this thread please!

I think that the standard of training of the SANDF and SAPS is relevant to their equipment selection. A maintenance sensitive rifle or carbine simply doesnt make sense in the current enviroment.

+1 on the 7.62X39. Does everything that you need.

I think that the comments regarding the maintenance knowledge of members are applicable not only to our DF but to almost any army in the world.

[Geoff Carter]

I think that the DP would be good for the SAPS and SANDF, maybe a barrel length increase for the DF for the longer ranges etc... Not a rifle man myself but I like the AK and its derivatives. I think that a weapon that can take abuse and still function is a BIG+ for our serve men & women!

I also like the 7,62x39 but I'm sure that the SAPS & SANDF are wedded to the 5,56mm and PMP( md217) does manufacture this ammo, as far as I know they don't do 7,62x39?

SSP do you any more info on the Raptor???

[Count Bla]

I did not start this thread for a bashing post for the SANDF or SAPS
What are your suggestions for a a new assault rifle for SANDF or patrol carbine for SAPS
leave the guys serving out of this thread please!

Dude, the ability of your troops is VERY important when choosing a service weapon for them. Dint quote me on this, but I recall seeing a media report (Carte Blance or such) some time ago that claimed that only 30% of our DF's troops are actually combat ready.

The rest is only there for a paycheck. They don't care one bit about the condition of their weapons. Hence my call for the AK-47. It'll probably still work after being neglected for a couple of years.

Once again, this is not an attept to "bash" the DF, but thats the facts.

[Thorkind]

Truvelo makes a carbine they refer to as the Raptor. It uses R mags and is apparently R based allowing for existing stock of magazines and parts to be used. It's also locally produced thus not dependent on the governments relations with another for supply.

"Truvelo Manufacturers (Pty) Ltd has manufactured an Assault Rifle in semi-automatic for security and automatic for military use. The Truvelo "Raptor" assault rifle in calibres 5,56NATO and 7,62x39 with a 12" barrel. The Truvelo "Raptor" as carbine in calibres 5,56NATO and 7,62x39 with a 9" barrel.
Optional: Aimpoint Sight"

This would make sense and I think that's what they're aiming for. I'm keen to see what reliability would be like.