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  1. #21
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    ultramange, now dont forget to explain question 3.

  2. #22

    Smile

    Thank you for that - you just made my week!!!

    Question three is taken care of by your previous answer. What I really wondered was if the Z88 was linked to any closer relationsship with Beretta which was not available with other companies due to sanctions. I have heard about the court case previously and I have also heard that it concerned the SP series as well. From your answer, this seems to have been a pure choice of the best pistol and not a matter of the best pistol available. Collecting SA made firearms is thrilling, not because of them being any "legendary" or special weapons, but because of the complicated history and political implications that are involved as well as the "can do" spririt that made them enter the market.

    Reasercing these guns has led me to all corners of the world and to many persons with fantastic stories to tell. The weird thing is that no one seems to have asked them before. The history of these guns are fading away and I really, really want to save them for the future.

    Was your source involved in the manufacture of the SP/CP series as well?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMange View Post

    Was your source involved in the manufacture of the SP/CP series as well?
    NO.

    one other "funny" rifle that was partially made by Musgrave was the Sanna 9mm sub-machine gun. i think initially for the then Rhodesian police.
    although i suspect that Musgrave was not the sole manufacturer of the Sanna.

    there is also a lot of Beretta A300 civilian semi-auto shotguns in s-africa with the the name Musgrave on the barrel. i even know of a couple of these so called Musgrave Berettas in the USA. the reason. tax "evasion".
    if you import a Beretta in those days as unit there is huge import taxes. but if you import the parts of the Beretta separately and simply assemble them here and stamp your name on the barrel then you get a tax incentive. a case of the right hand not knowing it had a left hand or something like that.

  4. #24
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    My 300 winmag musgrave has a flagsafety on the righthand side of the bolt and operates forwards and backwards, unlike all the other m98 and k98 models i have seen in magazines and websites. the serial no is wm 0123 and the action is marked musgrave. the previous owner said it is a k98. can anyone tell me whether it is a k98 or not? i would also like to know when it was built.
    Last edited by beertjie; 14-04-2010 at 21:31. Reason: spelling error

  5. #25

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    Any more detail or info 300H&H ?

  6. #26
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    beertjie, i will have to see the a picture or some sort of photo. if you want i can forward it to my brother in law who used to work for musgrave for 15 years. however i did speak to him quickly over the phone and he says it sounds like you are describing the Musgrave model 90 and you are referring to the wing safety on the side. the reason why your serial number is so short is that in later years Musgrave adopted this kind of serial numbers. wm standing for win mag and so on, depending on the calibre.

    i will take a guess, that since Musgrave changed to the new serial numbers, that this then is 123 ird Win Mag to be manufactured. he also said that that this is a fairly new Musgrave as far as Musgrave's are concerned.

    but only a picture will do the trick. in Bloemfontein there are two gunsmiths that used to work for Musgrave. take your rifle there and they will be able to give you more info.

    Gerrie from Gerrie Coetzee Vuurwapens in Parkweg (051-4441012) and the owner of Bloemfontein custom rifles in Hilton Kevin Healy (051-447 7549).

    p.s please give some feed back as soon as you know more, or if you want simply send me a picture with your phone
    Last edited by 300H&H; 19-04-2010 at 12:19.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianoli4 View Post
    Any more detail or info 300H&H ?

    are you referring to Musgrave related info?

  8. #28

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    Originally Posted by ianoli4
    Any more detail or info 300H&H ?


    are you referring to Musgrave related info?

    Yes, you mentioned that the info as posted by Bosveld is not all that correct, do you have any more info ?

  9. #29
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    the comments on the way Mr Abe Koch handled Musgrave seems biased. he was hand picked by Armscor to do a certain job.

    Musgrave had to bow before the tax collector for ad valorem tax(luxury items tax). for every hunting rifle they made they had to pay over to the collector 25% of their turnover. now who would be able to survive that in those days or even today.

    Bosveld continues in another post and states that Musgrave finally closed their doors in 1989. not to sure what is implied by that. the musgrave factory closed in 1996.

    Musgrave could have kept on existing in another form or shape, since there were a lot of private investors interested both localy and abroad. it was however the government's desire to close the factory, come what may. in the end what Mr Koch did or didn't do or the foreign influx of rifles had very little to do with Musgrave's demise.

    p.s this then is the dark world of politics and horse trading. i would rather discuss Musgarve related info on their products as well as their involvement with some military developments.
    Last edited by 300H&H; 28-04-2010 at 20:10.

  10. #30

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    Can anyone tell me anything about this pistol? I assume that it is the previously mentioned Musgrave, but would like to know more about it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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