Targetshooting at schools

**PIET75** · 24-08-2009, 20:29

The question asked by Schalk in another topic regarding target shooting at schools set me thinking.

When shooting an air rifle within municipal boundaries can have you charged under the fire arms act. Schools are considered to be gun free zones.

Where does that leave the air rifle shooters at school clubs shooting indoors?

**Corné** · 25-08-2009, 07:25

Originally Posted by PIET75

Schools are considered to be gun free zones.

I would disagree with that statement and propose the following statement.....Schools are 'weapons' free zones from the point of the scholars that are not suppose to be in possession of 'weapons'. I enter both my kids school premises with my SD firearm at my side without any problems.

To come back to the issue regarding the shooting of air rifles on school property. I would say that they do have an avenue available that they can obtain permission to legally shoot these rifles within municipal boundaries. I am not 100% sure about this, but this is what I would imagine to be the case. I would say that schools are not the only ones in this position as I think that there are other places where air rifles are also used within municipal boundaries that would require the same.

I remember a few years ago at one of the Big Shot Shows at the Kaylami centre, that the Air Rifle blokes was shooting inside the centre. I would imagine that they did obtain permission and that there is a route available for them to obtain permission. If not....then I see a problem.

**PIET75** · 27-08-2009, 12:20

In this country you can't get a straight answer md217

After putting the question to the SAPS (Fire arms office Pretoria HQ) the answer was that the school has to obtain permission to be exempted from the fire arm free zone rule - Chapter 20 of Act 60 of 2000. That is presuming all schools are fire arm free zones. ??????

Regarding range standards neither the SABS nor the NRCS has any standards regarding indoor ranges spesifically for air rifles. See VC9088.

WTF.

The reason behind my ranting is that we founded a new air rifle club at one of the local high schools this past weekend and will start shooting this weekend. I don't want to be in violation of any laws when the shooting starts as we will shoot on school premises and indoors.

As a club we affiliated with SAARA NW. As such we will adhere to all safety rules as laid out by SAARA's Rules and Regulations, Edition 2007.

**HotDawg** · 22-09-2009, 11:30

Whilst not an expert on this matter (who is?) I would say the following. The act states you may not discharge a firearm in a municipal area WITHOUT JUST CAUSE and as far as I'm aware target practice is just that, just cause. Am open to correction, of course. Also, it is very unlikely that a school that has an existing facility will be in contravention of the FCA. Air gun do not need special ranges in terms of NCRS/SABS because no live ammo is being fired, little or no noise etc.

**abhm** · 22-09-2009, 12:28

Originally Posted by PIET75

we founded a new air rifle club at one of the local high schools this past weekend and will start shooting this weekend.

surely as the FCA specifically excludes air rifles no portion of the act is applicable to this specific club!

**Sean Murphy** · 22-09-2009, 12:44

I think ABHM is right (ouch). Since air rifles are not considered to be firearms by the FCA I do not see how the GFZ's apply to them.

Sean.

**deonh** · 22-09-2009, 13:39

Piet75, the FCA is most definitely applicable to airguns but it is a tad vague in your case in that it states, an addition to numerous other entries relating to airguns (as defined in s. 1 of the FCA), that:

"It is an offence to discharge an airgun in a built up area or any public place, without good reason to do so."

WTF is "good reason" you ask? I dunno. It's a grey area where lawyers get rich I am told. IMO though a formal airgun shoot at a school is "good reason" (whether this is allowed on school property is another question though).

Either way, you may also want to take a look at your local / municipal by-law(s). I know, for example, that the discharging of airguns within the City of Cape Town is controlled in the CoCT's by-laws and is only permitted in specific circumstances, places and / or with specific approval (as the case may be). The applicability of some of these by-laws (which appear to be generic in our neck of the woods) is also a bit vague as sometimes they (or rather the offense) simply refers to taking place "within the jurisdiction of the Municipality" and in some cases the by-laws refer to "in a public place". Again, some more grey it would seem.

Note dudes that there's also a difference between a "gun free zone" and a "firearm free zone" and that they are not one and the same or interchangeable.

**abhm** · 22-09-2009, 13:47

Originally Posted by deonh

Piet75, the FCA is most definitely applicable to airguns but it is a tad vague in your case in that it states, an addition to numerous other entries relating to airguns (as defined in s. 1 of the FCA), that:

"It is an offence to discharge an airgun in a built up area or any public place, without good reason to do so."

WTF is "good reason" you ask? I dunno. It's a grey area where lawyers get rich I am told. IMO though a formal airgun shoot at a school is "good reason" (whether this is allowed on school property is another question though).

Either way, you may also want to take a look at your local / municipal by-law(s). I know, for example, that the discharging of airguns within the City of Cape Town is controlled in the CoCT's by-laws and is only permitted in specific circumstances, places and / or with specific approval (as the case may be). The applicability of some of these by-laws (which appear to be generic in our neck of the woods) is also a bit vague as sometimes they (or rather the offense) simply refers to taking place "within the jurisdiction of the Municipality" and in some cases the by-laws refer to "in a public place". Again, some more grey it would seem.

Note dudes that there's also a difference between a "gun free zone" and a "firearm free zone" and that they are not one and the same or interchangeable.

Deon
Chapter 3, 5(f) Act 60 of 2000 indicates that an airgun is NOT considered a firearm, I find no reference to a "Gun" free zone and dont believe there is n fact such a legal concept!

**deonh** · 22-09-2009, 14:13

Originally Posted by ABHM

Deon
Chapter 3, 5(f) Act 60 of 2000 indicates that an airgun is NOT considered a firearm, I find no reference to a "Gun" free zone and dont believe there is n fact such a legal concept!

Chombrero, cool your jets, I never contested whether an airgun is defined as a firearm or not. I was drawing attention to the applicability of the FCA to airguns (and their usage). Do a search for the word "airgun" in the FCA further than section 5 and you'll see what I mean.

In a previous post I explained the difference(s) between a GFZ and a FFZ.

**abhm** · 22-09-2009, 14:23

Originally Posted by deonh

Originally Posted by ABHM

Deon
Chapter 3, 5(f) Act 60 of 2000 indicates that an airgun is NOT considered a firearm, I find no reference to a "Gun" free zone and dont believe there is n fact such a legal concept!

Chombrero, cool your jets, I never contested whether an airgun is defined as a firearm or not. I was drawing attention to the applicability of the FCA to airguns (and their usage). Do a search for the word "airgun" in the FCA further than section 5 and you'll see what I mean.

In a previous post I explained the difference(s) between a GFZ and a FFZ.

my jets are ice bro! just because you define what a GFZ is does not mean it has any legal standing!